Vortex Generators on a Vintage Mooney?

[Shadrach]

Quote: aviatoreb

Good point regarding the question of why did Mooney install them even in their later aircraft. Could be engineering reasons as you say.  I bet you are right that they MUST have tried them on at least a test airplane.  But then again, it could be sales reasons, like the wing might not be as attractive and glassy smooth looking with them.  They are in a sales business at the end of the day after all.

I am sure you are right.  I am SURE there is room for me to improve as a pilot and my shortfield technique can and WILL improve.  I have some more dual time next week.  I am neither a newbie, nor an old Vet.  I have 350hrs and an IFR cert.  I am well aware that I am still a work in progress regarding pilot skills.

[Hank]

I have no dog in this fight, but I also don't see the need for VGs on my Mooney. It's taken the wife and I, with full fuel, in and out of a nearby 2000' grass strip without a problem. It's a C-model, too. Any short-body should be able to do this, and probably most of the mid-bodies, just watch out for the heavy noses and high gross weights on some. And no, I won't go there heavy, or even with 4 people and half tanks.

[Shadrach]

Quote: sleepingsquirrel

[aviatoreb]

Quote: Shadrach

[sleepingsquirrel]

hypothetically , If I were going to experiment with the vortex generators ,I would only put them on the outboard sections of the wings. This could give aileron control a boost as the Mooney approaches stall and the stall strips do their job. I'm also of the mind that VG s on the fuselage at the transition from cabin to tail cone might be helpful. Prop wash energy is already wasted and recovery of some of that energy by VGs to keep flow attached could possibly help cruise speed. It could also keep turbulence from reducing rudder and elevator effectiveness at higher angles of attack.

Caution : Vortex generator technology is cheap, easily temporarily attached , and could be fatal if improperly used.

Which leads to my next question: Will putting VGs on the bottom of the Mooney wing improve its inverted flight performance? Right now it's pretty bad, so I don't see how it could hurt.

 

[WardHolbrook]

Quote: sleepingsquirrel

...Which leads to my next question: Will putting VGs on the bottom of the Mooney wing improve its inverted flight performance? Right now it's pretty bad, so I don't see how it could hurt. 

[sleepingsquirrel]

Probably ,  just like deploying Mooney spoilers while inverted, rates of climb like a rocket ship!

[sleepingsquirrel]

 This is for the OP,I haven't slept since this thread, I did find something from real life experience with VGs here.

 http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_cruise_wide_screen.pdf

http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_stall_wide_screen.pdf

I"m making a correction to this: "Leaving bird poop,smashed bugs, on the leading edge will do as much TO HURT KEEPING the boundry layer attached as vortex generators at the speeds Mooneys are operating."

[KSMooniac]

Nice find, Squirrel!  I still stand by my assertion that VG's on a Mooney will in fact reduce the cruise speed, and the Bonanza data seems to support my position with real data.

[carusoam]

Squirrel,

Very informative find.

The part I liked best was the explanation of the stall strips, why they work and why there are located where they are.

Best regards,

-a-

[sleepingsquirrel]

 It seems counter productive to add VGs behind the stall strips. It defeats their purpose. The summary did tell one thing, that the stall was more wicked from a higher AOA with VGs.

 I'm thinking that if one has an older smooth wing Mooney (flush rivets) One could get the boundry layer to trip with the right paint job. My Mooney just needs a full checker board painted from the wing root to about the end of the flaps.  It will look so cool upside down!

[rorythedog]

Quote: sleepingsquirrel

 This is for the OP,I haven't slept since this thread, I did find something from real life experience with VGs here.

 http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_cruise_wide_screen.pdf

http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_stall_wide_screen.pdf

I"m making a correction to this: "Leaving bird poop,smashed bugs, on the leading edge will do as much TO HURT KEEPING the boundry layer attached as vortex generators at the speeds Mooneys are operating."