Foreflight's New Weight and Balance

[bhilgy]

Anyone try this new feature in Foreflight yet?  I'm stumped as mine seems to be calculating all wrong.  Probably a user error but wondering if anyone else has an issue.

[philipneeper]

Bhilgy, 

 

   This topic already has a thread. Here you go:

 

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/12812-additions-to-foreflight/?hl=foreflight

[Jeff H.]

Make sure your aircraft moment is entered in IN-LB - my value is 99,001.19.   It's the only balance value entered in that form in the application and is easy to miss.

[Houman]

I use it now all the time, once the data is entered properly, it works great...

[bhilgy]

Barelyawake, thank you that was exactly what I had wrong.

[carusoam]

For weight and balance....

Distances are measured in inches from the reference point.

Weights are in pounds.

Torque= Distance X weight. In this case inch-pounds...

Make sure you are adding/subtracting and multiplying the proper units,

-a-

[Piloto]

Not to undermine the usefulness of the W&B function in the Foreflight, but do you have a scale to weight everyone before boarding? Otherwise how accurate your calculation would be. In a Mooney were everyone is sitting on top of the wing it is very hard to be outside the CG range, but more likely to be over gross. Even on commercial flights they don't weight each passenger.

 

José

[aviatoreb]

Not to undermine the usefulness of the W&B function in the Foreflight, but do you have a scale to weight everyone before boarding? Otherwise how accurate your calculation would be. In a Mooney were everyone is sitting on top of the wing it is very hard to be outside the CG range, but more likely to be over gross. Even on commercial flights they don't weight each passenger.

 

José

 

Depends on the size of the airplane.  In an airplane with 100 people - it is likely that the people will accurately follow a predicted distribution with a certain predictable mean to a very high accuracy.

 

In a small airplane with 3 people - not so much.

 

Actually, when you fly with a very small airplane airline you do get weighed.  Like Cape Air that flies Cessna 402's all around my region.  They fly 10 seats incl the pilot.  They weight every customer and every luggage on a scale.

 

That said - I feel like I can judge a persons weight by the eyeball scale within 20-40 lbs - and if I am not sure - I ask.

[Piloto]

So fat ones in the front and slims ones in the back, isn't that segregation. You know when you are outside the aft CG when the tail touches the ground. In a 100 passenger plane you go by prior seat assignment. I have not seen "max weight" signs on the seats or flight attendance assigning seats. Can you imagine a row of fat guys all seated together? In a 402 where would you comfortably seat two Sumo wrestlers? Not to mention the tail stand needed for boarding them.

 

José

[Houman]

Has anyone flown their mooney above the gross weight ?, I never have, but would be interested in the experience if one is 50 to 100 lbs over, but still with CG...

[DonMuncy]

Naturally I would never do that, but a friend flew a 231 a little over 100 #s over and could not tell the difference.

[Jeff H.]

I have the same friend Don does and he said the same thing to me.

 

With regard to weighing passengers and luggage - yes, use a travel scale for the bags (hang them from it) and a cheap bathroom scale for humans.   With regard to airliners, I often been on a plane where passengers were relocated from front to back (or vice versa) in order to balance the plane.  Plane would not move until some passengers changed seats.

 

YMMV

[Marauder]

Has anyone flown their mooney above the gross weight ?, I never have, but would be interested in the experience if one is 50 to 100 lbs over, but still with CG...

Yeah, these guys: Many of the eastern guys knew the first accident pilot. He was under gross but didn't take into consideration the take off performance for the weight he was at.

[Piloto]

200 pounds over gross in a M20J is a different story than on a 300HP Ovation. The M20J will be anemic on takeoff and climb while the Ovation will have no significant effect. This is due to the excess power on the models. At gross weight the average Mooney requires about 100HP to maintain level flight (3000lb/30 = 100HP). Any power above that is converted to climb or speed drag. Thus a 300HP Ovation would have twice that of an M20J thus twice the climb rate. On a turbo the effect is more significant since it can maintain the excess power at higher altitudes.

 

Where the over gross condition is more significant is when taxing, particularly on grass. The nose wheel is too small and short legged, prone to getting stuck in the dirt and maybe leading to a prop strike. Whenever contemplating an over gross condition make sure the tires are fully inflated so your takeoff run is not as long.

 

I have ferried the Ovation and Bravo at over 200lb over gross with no significant performance degradation. Achieving easily 17,000ft. But on a M20J you will be lucky if you get above 12,000. You will need to burn fuel for at least three hours before attempting higher altitudes. All the above had long range tanks, survival  equipment, spare parts and some TKS jugs.

 

José  

[Houman]

Yeah, that was what I was told, with the M20K 305 Rocket that I have, I usually climb easly 1000 fpm and still stay above 120 kias, this is with both fuel tanks full ( 72 G ) and 1 or 2 passengers of around 150 lbs each. I have yet to try with 4 passengers, to see, but I'm way too by the number guy to try that over gross. I would probably put less fuel and make sure my payload is under 2900 without fuel and gross under 3200 as indicated in the Rocket POH...

[Amelia]

My three Mooney 231 partners, back in the old days, used to load up their golf clubs and go to Florida for the week. I don't know what those boys weighed, but they were not small men. One played big-college football, before he got old and fat. Not a one was under 6 feet tall. Don't have any notion what golf clubs weigh, or if they took a change of clothes and a toothbrush each. But I do believe it was a one-tank trip from way up nawth to their South Atlantic coast to their tropical destination, and they survived, year after year.  I took that to mean that I could have second helpings of dessert.

Oh, and you should see the stuff that can be packed in a Mooney for a week on the OSH North 40. I don't think many of those "camper" pilots actually weighed their gear. Once again, I am consoled about my expanding girth.

A couple of times Angel Flight pax have showed up with a lot more weight than they claimed. The first time, I made the couple re-pack their many suitcases into one small bag each, while I waited. It was just a weekend, for heaven's sake! The other time, the family didn't think medical gear counted! So having been forewarned by the connecting pilot, I neglected to top off the tanks, and bought gas at the destination for the trip home. So, while I slavishly follow the rules, I do suspect a fair amount of extra capacity has been designed into these wonderful airplanes.

[Ned Gravel]

Amelia:

 

Just to provide you with two countering data points, I know Yves weighs everything himself before the North 40 sojourn and for both years that I camped there, I did too.  Closest either of us came was 20 lbs under gross.