Lost a Mag in Flight

[PTK]

...I am more convinced than ever that a full engine analyzer is the 2nd best add on gadget a pilot can get after an angle of attack indicator...

I have to disagree with you Mike!

First, an engine analyzer is not a "gadget." It is primary for the engine.

Second, in our singles, especially in singles, an engine analyzer should be top priority. Absolutely the very first thing to install of any avionics upgrade.

We have redundant systems but we only have one engine!

AOA is a gadget and not even on the list!

[Andy95W]

My slick mags haven't been changed in 1200 hrs, I was going have them either serviced or replaced in upcoming annual, how far would you push it?

Mike Busch has a lot of valid opinions about not performing unneccessary maintenance, with the exception of magnetos. He agrees with the 500 hour inspections.

IMHO, you should definitely do something with them. You might consider doing one a year starting at your next annual, or both if any issue whatsoever comes up.

[Sabremech]

I'm with Mike on the AOA being top priority over an engine analyzer. The AOA can save your bacon whether the engine is running or not. That engine analyzer won't do much after the engine has failed!

David

[Andy95W]

Well, the best "gadget" is a well trained, current pilot.

After that, it probably comes down to what you are worried about...

1.) how you fly the airplane

2.) what's going on inside your engine that hasn't seen the light of day since the engine overhauler

But I like what David (Sabremech) said: the engine analyzer won't help after the engine quits, the AOA may keep you from stalling as you try to stretch your glide to your crash site.

[WardHolbrook]

Maybe for some it's an "either/or" thing, but for me it's a matter or priority on the "must have" list. 

[WardHolbrook]

Do you own an airplane, Ward? If so, what kind? Just curious. I don't recall your ever having said before.

I am between airplanes now. I have owned a Luscombe 8F, a Cessna 421B and most recently, a couple of gliders. I hope to find a clean Mooney 252 Encore in the near future. Presently, my "daily drivers" are a couple of Falcon 900Bs, but that's about to change too. The boss is looking to sell one of the 900Bs and replace it with a Falcon 900EX.

[PTK]

"A digital engine monitor arguably offers the best cost-benefit ratio of any item of avionics you can install." ...Mike Busch

[Sabremech]

"A digital engine monitor arguably offers the best cost-benefit ratio of any item of avionics you can install." ...Mike Busch

Personally, I think Mike Busch is a little overrated. I may have agreed with him on this statement a few years ago , but the AOA now being available for small airplanes is the best piece of equipment we can put in.

David

[scottfromiowa]

Personally, I think Mike Busch is a little overrated. I may have agreed with him on this statement a few years ago , but the AOA now being available for small airplanes is the best piece of equipment we can put in.

David

I respectfully disagree.

[PTK]

Personally, I think Mike Busch is a little overrated. I may have agreed with him on this statement a few years ago , but the AOA now being available for small airplanes is the best piece of equipment we can put in.

David

What changed from a few years ago till today?

If you agreed with him then why not today?

As far as I'm concerned my engine monitor fulfills three very crucial roles for me that I can't. I'm good but not that good!

1. It monitors every critical parameter of my engine 4 times each second and alerts me immediately if needed, and

2. It enables me to listen to my engine when it's trying to tell me something. It's my stethoscope to my engine if you will. The engine talks to us in many ways long before it fails, and

3. Enables me to have a historical trend of these parameters.

Example: a failing exhaust valve will start to broadcast itself 25 or 30 hours before it finally fails and shuts down the cylinder. An engine monitor will receive this broadcast and show me. Now with FEVA it's even easier.

The engine monitor is a beautiful thing and why it's worth it's weight in gold!

[Marauder]

Testy group today. Is it because all of us except Don, Bob and Bennett need to go to work tomorrow? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[WardHolbrook]

I knew about your "day job" but just didn't know about the other end of your aviation addiction. I love my J but a 252/Encore is pretty much the ultimate Mooney for us efficiency mined individuals as far as I am concerned. Good luck in your search.

The term "aviation addiction" pretty much sums it up. The purist in me wants the 252. Is there a more efficient or capable "off the shelf" airplane? I would want one with TKS and I'd gladly pay the slight performance penalty for the increased utility. The pure performance junkie in me wants a Acclaim S, but the fiscal conservative in my wife says that's not likely to happen anytime soon. I've been a fan of the entire M20 series line from my very first Mooney logbook entry 47 years ago. I'm a Mooney fan for precisely the same reason why I prefer the Dassault Falcon 900 and 7/8-X series 3-holers to the Gulfstream G-400 and 500 series airplanes. They all do pretty much the same thing and have essentially the same performance but what the Gulfstream folks do with massive amounts of thrust and fuel flow the French do with aerodynamic efficiency and better design - but then on this forum, I'm preaching to the choir.  

[WardHolbrook]

What changed from a few years ago till today?

If you agreed with him then why not today?

As far as I'm concerned my engine monitor fulfills three very crucial roles for me that I can't. I'm good but not that good!

1. It monitors every critical parameter of my engine 4 times each second and alerts me immediately if needed, and

2. It enables me to listen to my engine when it's trying to tell me something. It's my stethoscope to my engine if you will. The engine talks to us in many ways long before it fails, and

3. Enables me to have a historical trend of these parameters.

Example: a failing exhaust valve will start to broadcast itself 25 or 30 hours before it finally fails and shuts down the cylinder. An engine monitor will receive this broadcast and show me. Now with FEVA it's even easier.

The engine monitor is a beautiful thing and why it's worth it's weight in gold!

The caveat is that you must have taken the time and effort into educating yourself on how to read and interpret what that analyzer is trying to tell you, otherwise it's just another expensive piece of hardware in the panel that you don't or can't take full advantage of. It's a great tool, but there are several great tools (for example an AoA) that a prudent pilot would probably want to add to his/her airplane as well that were unavailable when our airplanes were new. Also, how many pilots invest in something like an engine monitor and fail to invest in engine oil analysis? That's certainly a no brainer and probably the least expensive safety enhancement you can do for your airplane.

[Guest]

I'd be very curious to know what failed in the mag. Of late Slick has had just as many issues as the old D3000 series mags. Please let us know what is found.

Clarence

[Sabremech]

As a full time A&P/IA, I take exception to some of the things Mike B preaches. He has his own business to promote at the expense of other A&P's at times. There's two viewpoints here, pilots and A&P's, I get it and have shared mine.

On to AOA's, I learned the importance of this little gauge about 4 years ago when we started operating our A4 Skyhawk. I would like to get rid of my stall vane and horn and put in an AOA. Some day soon I will have it and then I'll think of upgrading my engine instruments.

Yes, an engine analyzer is nice, but the AOA will save my butt with or without a running engine.

I'll leave it at that or we can start another thread and not hijack this one.

David

[PTK]

As a full time A&P/IA, I take exception to some of the things Mike B preaches. He has his own business to promote at the expense of other A&P's at times. There's two viewpoints here, pilots and A&P's, I get it and have shared mine.

On to AOA's, I learned the importance of this little gauge about 4 years ago when we started operating our A4 Skyhawk. I would like to get rid of my stall vane and horn and put in an AOA. Some day soon I will have it and then I'll think of upgrading my engine instruments. 

Yes, an engine analyzer is nice, but the AOA will save my butt with or without a running engine.

I'll leave it at that or we can start another thread and not hijack this one. 

David 

 

I agree David. The point is the op had a failed mag...of the good kind! A totally failed mag! His engine analyzer showed him this. I don't know if he recognized what it was trying to tell him but it certainly spoke to him. 

 

The engine made power and was able to climb. Shut off the bad mag and fly on! 

 

This has nothing to do with an AOA ind. or wheather he has two mags or the dual mag.

 

I say we hijack this one! 

[201er]

Ok, mechanic pulled the mag and got back to me about it. I'm only basically familiar with the inners of a mag so I may not be able to relay the problem properly but maybe it will make sense to someone else who can explain it. Problem was with distributor bearing destroyed and rotor cap. Can someone clarify what that means?

[Marauder]

I think the distributor bearing is the gizmo that spins the points around Mike. And the cap is the actual cap where your spark plug leads are connected to. Sounds like the bearing detonated and the whole mess destroyed the inside of your cap.

Now I will let the experts speak...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Andy95W]

Would love to see a picture of the destroyed distributor.

On the Bendix magneto, the distributor contactor is attached to a gear whose shaft spins in an oil impregnated bushing (bearing). There are some oil impregnated felt pads that help keep oil in the vicinity of that bushing. I suppose that could overheat and start to chew up the shaft or the torque could crack the plastic distributor block that the bushing is mounted in.

Definitely an abnormal situation and one of the reasons we have two!

(Here is where we can dredge up the dual vs. single mag argument)

(And maybe the flaps on takeoff in case you lose a mag thread)

[John Pleisse]

Well there is a few caveats, one the magneto hold-down system. The dual mag is held down with two clamps and studs which have star lockwashers and nuts.  4 times now I have seen a loose mag because someone loosened the mag to reset the timing, then tightened it back up.

 

I flew almost 500 hours before it was discovered one of my studs was sheared off. Not only that, there was evidence of a drill out and the failed repair was actually painted over intentionally. This really could have been a killer.

[jetdriven]

I flew almost 500 hours before it was discovered one of my studs was sheared off. Not only that, there was evidence of a drill out and the failed repair was actually painted over intentionally. This really could have been a killer.

 

Wow! John, you really dodged a bullet on that one!

[WardHolbrook]

I flew almost 500 hours before it was discovered one of my studs was sheared off. Not only that, there was evidence of a drill out and the failed repair was actually painted over intentionally. This really could have been a killer.

I have come to truly appreciate quality maintenance by people or companies with integrity. It is seldom the least expensive alternative, but quality rarely comes cheap. When you find that "golden" shop or mechanic, pay them what they ask for and do whatever else you have to do to keep them happy. It's that's important. I've got to question the guys who have been performing your maintenance and inspections - how do you miss a missing stud? 

 

On the other hand, there is the issue of "cheap" owners. Being frugal is one thing. But guys who intentionally cut corners? I've worked at a couple of places where they had rationalized skimping on proper and timely maintenance. I quit those jobs, it's just not worth it. People need to realize that skimping on or putting off maintenance ALWAYS ends up costing more in the long run. If you can't afford to properly maintain your airplane then you can't afford it.

 

In my book, signing off and painting over a botched repair borders on criminal. You don't accidentally do crap like that, it was intentional.  I would be pissed if I were you.

[PTK]

...how do you miss a missing stud? 

 

Easy!! It's missing so, it stands to reason, it was missed!  

[Guest]

In reading these posts it's amazing the number of maintenance induced failures. Perhaps if the FAA stopped giving out A & P tickets with little to no experience and upped the training requirements things may improve.

A change of name and attitude toward the trades in general may attract better apprentice candidates, a pay raise couldn't hurt either, but that would mean the members of the "Cheap Bast***s" club will have to pay more for maintenance.

Clarence

30 year Aircraft Maintenance Engineer

[Sabremech]

In reading these posts it's amazing the number of maintenance induced failures. Perhaps if the FAA stopped giving out A & P tickets with little to no experience and upped the training requirements things may improve.

 

 

 I don't think the FAA "gives" out A&P tickets. Mine wasn't given to me and I think the problem boils down to personal ethics and not so much in training. What do you suggest we change or add to our training program?

 

 David

 30 year A&P/IA