VFR Trip Planning / Paper Sectionals vs Electronics

[Rhumbline]

I am wondering. With all the navigational apps, external GPS units, glass cockpits, iPads, iPhones, etc. does anybody still use manual VFR Xcountry trip calculations, EB6, Xwind corrections, visual waypoints every 15 miles or so, paper flight plan forms, paper sectionals on the lap?

 

 

I do.  A lifetime of dragging my knuckles has made it impossible for me to manipulate electronic devices which I hammer and slobber on anyway.  Besides, the charts are delicious!    

[MooneyBob]

I actually combine both techniques. I prepare my flight plan on my iPad using the Garmin Pilot app. I add some user waypoints if I feel like I need ones. Then I print out the iPad screen shot of the sectional with my magenta flight path on a large 11 x 17" paper in color. Then I use the Sharpie to write down on the printed sectional all the Atis, Approach, Tower and Naviad frequencies for easy reading. I draw the arrows with the course directions and radials. I emphasize right patterns and pattern altitudes. And any other notes I might use during the flight. In this format it is very easy to read and manipulate one big ( not huge) sheet of paper with big letters and notes. Then I fly by my iPad but my printed backup is right next to me. I have found it very convenient and it is not too much work since I create the flight plan on the iPad anyway.

[Hector]

Have not used paper in quite some time. If the weather at the destination is not looking great and looks like I'll be shooting an approach I sometimes print the approach plates from Foreflight as a backup to the backup. Does not happen often at all.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Marauder]

I guess over time I have evolved. Like Bob, I was a Jepp user and once I was able to shed the binders, I never looked back. I carry two iPads and my approach plates are also on the Aspen. I use one iPad in dynamic map mode and the other with either a sectional or IFR chart showing. For a while I was printing a copy of the current approach plate for my primary and alternate, but with the Aspen able to pull up a legal version, triple redundancy is enough. Sent using Tapatalk

[DS1980]

That is a disturbing avatar

[Marauder]

That is a disturbing avatar

LOL! I'm back at work, time to regress...

Sent using Tapatalk

[Guest]

As a fairly new VFR pilot I use the paper and E6B for flight planning.  Once in the air I use dead reckoning/pilotage as much as possible but have the GPS pad off to the side and the VORs dialed in for periodic checking if needed.  If Lindberg could do it so can I.

[ArtVandelay]

For planning purposes, nothing beats a paper chart for getting the big picture...for navigating in plane, electronics is way to go.

[Marauder]

As a fairly new VFR pilot I use the paper and E6B for flight planning. Once in the air I use dead reckoning/pilotage as much as possible but have the GPS pad off to the side and the VORs dialed in for periodic checking if needed. If Lindberg could do it so can I.

There was a reason they called him Lucky Lindy.

Sent using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

For planning purposes, nothing beats a paper chart for getting the big picture...for navigating in plane, electronics is way to go.

I remember early in my flying career I had pieced together all of the sectionals for the U.S. and attached it to a wall so I could see my planned trips. Actually had map pins for places I had been and strings attached to points on the map for where I was going. Sent using Tapatalk

[jlunseth]

Yeah the biggest problem with paper was trying to draw a straight line.  I had a big wall chart also, just so I could draw a line from KFCM to Taos, or wherever I was headed.  Every sectional depicted things a little differently, so crossing from one sectional to another was a major mess.  I must be an old guy, because I remember about 4-5 years ago when people began ditching the paper and flying direct, airport to airport, for a thousand miles or so.  All kinds of hue and cry over the world ending and how unsafe it was and what would you do if you lost comm. and had to fly an approach into the airport but your route did not end at a fix, it ended at the airport, and how we were all going to be dying in droves and making history in  the Nall report because of our reliance on iPads and Foreflight and GPS point-to-point.  I have done exactly one VFR, 15 mile waypoint, flight plan in the past five years and that was for my commercial checkride because FAA still requires dark age navigation.  The electronics I have available now, which consist of a reliable AP, 430W, and an iPad with Foreflight, are immensely safer than paper which, by the way, you can never find in the dark in the back seat in an emergency descent from 19k, you have to ask for help from ATC and just fly the plane.

[flyboy0681]

... because FAA still requires dark age navigation.  

 

As I said previously, my instrument check ride a few weeks ago also required "dark age" navigation. Before the ride I was bitching to my CFI on how asinine a requirement it was but all he could do was shrug his shoulders. The PTS should instead require a fully computerized flight plan so the applicant could demonstrate to the examiner exactly how to disseminate and interpret the material. 

 

Is there anyone out there that sits down with a blank flight plan form, an E6B and calls a briefer?

[midlifeflyer]

 

 I have done exactly one VFR, 15 mile waypoint, flight plan in the past five years and that was for my commercial checkride because FAA still requires dark age navigation.  

 

I used a DUAT-generated flight plan for my instrument checkride with not a word of concern from my examiner. That was 22 years ago.  I'm now a confirmed tablet user with a sticky note pad as the only paper I bring with me. My iPad backup is an Android tablet.

 

The FAA insists you know how to dark-age navigate. Given that I heard the  #1 reason for a wrong answer on the navigation questions on the multiple-guess  knowledge test is the answer that gives the direction exactly opposite to the correct answer, not to mention CFIT with bells and whistles,  I'm not sure that's such a bad idea.

 

(Search: "Children of the Magenta")

[DonMuncy]

I don't use a flight plan form, but I do call a briefer.

[flyboy]

Paper,... what is paper?

 

I do miss the big wall charts with a string that were on every FBO's wall 30 years ago.

[pinerunner]

I've been doing it the old fashioned way.  I laid off flying for a couple decades and just started up again two years ago. The Instructor who did my biannual strongly recommended I get an Ipad and the app he had but at the time I decided to stick with what I knew. After discovering how fast I can spend money on a plane I'm still on old fashioned paper but am strongly considering 

 

Garmin GLO  (WAAS level GPS with Bluetooth)

Garmin PILOT or maybe ForeFlight

Samsung tablet (I like linux based better than Apple)

 

I only want to do this once and not end up getting a succession of different devices that don't quite satisfy my needs.

[MooneyBob]

I've been doing it the old fashioned way.  I laid off flying for a couple decades and just started up again two years ago. The Instructor who did my biannual strongly recommended I get an Ipad and the app he had but at the time I decided to stick with what I knew. After discovering how fast I can spend money on a plane I'm still on old fashioned paper but am strongly considering 

 

Garmin GLO  (WAAS level GPS with Bluetooth)

Garmin PILOT or maybe ForeFlight

Samsung tablet (I like linux based better than Apple)

 

I only want to do this once and not end up getting a succession of different devices that don't quite satisfy my needs.

I had all above. My experience is:

Garmin GLO has GPS only if I remember correctly. GDL 39 3D has weather, traffic, terrain, back up attitude indicator and synthetic vision. That's why I have the GLO in the plane as a backup only.

Garmin Pilot - after all the upgrades I love it.

I have two iPads ( regular and mini) and the Google Nexus with the android OS. The android doesn't support all the features that you can find on iPads.

This technology is evolving fast and there is something new literally every week so you need to keep an eye on it before you decide which way to go.

[Rhumbline]

 Is there anyone out there that sits down with a blank flight plan form, an E6B and calls a briefer?

 

Yup.  I use the conch shell in my cave, grunt the relevant information to the briefer, throw some bones in a circle resembling a whiz wheel to please the spirits, grab my mate by the hair and then drag her to the airport to pedal somewhere for a 100 clam bronto-burger.  I had no idea how unsophisticated, backward and outmoded I am!     

[pinerunner]

I had all above. My experience is:

Garmin GLO has GPS only if I remember correctly. GDL 39 3D has weather, traffic, terrain, back up attitude indicator and synthetic vision. That's why I have the GLO in the plane as a backup only.

Garmin Pilot - after all the upgrades I love it.

I have two iPads ( regular and mini) and the Google Nexus with the android OS. The android doesn't support all the features that you can find on iPads.

This technology is evolving fast and there is something new literally every week so you need to keep an eye on it before you decide which way to go.

According to Garmin, GLO uses GPS and GLONASS (Russian) to get access to more satellites and they claim its WAAS capable too. I don't think that means its legal to fly an instrument approach with though.  At only about 100 bucks Garmin GLO seems like a no-brainer to me. That leaves question of hardware and software to display the great positional information. 

[flyboy0681]

 I don't think that means its legal to fly an instrument approach with though.  At only about 100 bucks Garmin GLO seems like a no-brainer to me. That leaves question of hardware and software to display the great positional information. 

 

I can say with 100% certainty that you can't use it for an approach. The FAR's are very clear on this.

[Marauder]

According to Garmin, GLO uses GPS and GLONASS (Russian) to get access to more satellites and they claim its WAAS capable too. I don't think that means its legal to fly an instrument approach with though. At only about 100 bucks Garmin GLO seems like a no-brainer to me. That leaves question of hardware and software to display the great positional information.

Couple of things to keep in mind when you start looking at the apps. The Garmin Pilot app on the Droid devices is not the same as the Garmin Pilot app on Apple iOS. There are a lot more features on the Apple version. Was the reason I stopped using my Nexus 7. Also, ForeFlight does not run on Droid devices, only Apple. The main thing I would do if you haven't bought one yet is to take advantage of the 30 day free trials for each. The user interface is different for each and you may find you prefer one over the other. Also give WingX, FlyQ, myWingman and JeppFD a try. As for the hardware, using just the GPS built into my Nexus 7, iPad Air or iPad Mini, I never have a problem obtaining and getting great signal from the onboard GPS while flying. The GLONASS capability is not critical. If you are doing any distances while flying, I would check out the ADS-B capable antennaes. When I upgraded to the GDL-39, I found having access to the weather along the route was a nice feature. Really helps you understand if the forecasts are holding up. Sent using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

One question...(almost)

Does Mr. Putin use Glonass?

If not, who does?

Plan B for the post Armageddon crowd?

Best regards,

-a-

[Oscar Avalle]

I am full electroinic. There are not paper VFR charts where I fly now....The only available VFR paper charts are the old ONC charts. With mountains and bad radar coverage it is a challenge. Thank you garmin and Aspen!

[MooneyBob]

Yes, Putin uses his Glonass. That's how he found his way to Ukraine.

[ArtVandelay]

 

Is there anyone out there that sits down with a blank flight plan form, an E6B and calls a briefer?

 

I do (call briefer), when I submitted FP via Duats, it altered my routing,so I called 10 mins later to verify it modified it correctly, they still hadn't recv it, so redid it. I'm not sure if it got lost, or the duats computers have a slow connection to FAA computers.