Seattle TAC

[rotorman]

The Seattle Terminal Area Chart was changed last year. Instead of the normal concentric upside cake that we have all gotten used  to they have divided the Class B  into multi sided sectors. On the the old chart each ring was labled with a distance from the VOR enabling a VFR pilot to keep clear of the Class B. The new chart has only 12 NM in the approach corridors.  How do we now identify the boundries of each of surrounding sectors?

[tonyk628]

A gps.

[rbuck]

Yep. I use Foreflight, and it works for me. 

[chrisk]

It looks like the radials for the Class B are aligned with the VOR.  A radial and DME should work.  There does however appear to be a step between the 4 and six mile ring.  And for all the other boundaries, I think a GPS is your best bet. --Or "Cleared to enter the Bravo"

[carusoam]

Navigating has gotten more complex than see and avoid?

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Philly Class B added some legs on this past year as well. Best suggestion is move to an iPad or Android device and run an app that supports GPS. I fly out of an airport that butts on the B and if I am flying south! I could easily fly into it.

I also flew last year over to the real Jersey pilots of the NJ Mooney Pilots Group and the east side of the class B is even worse!

[rotorman]

A gps.

So your idea is to use the chart, pick off all the lat/longs of all the boundries and then navigate off of them. Remember not the entire aviation community is using a moving map display, including me.  The FAA requires a mode C transponder and radio to enter the 30 mile Class B ring. I don't think a GPS is required. So they should give the VFR pilot some way to navigate the area. If it is not possible to do so with that equipment then they should make a moving map GPS a requirement.

[rotorman]

It looks like the radials for the Class B are aligned with the VOR.  A radial and DME should work.  There does however appear to be a step between the 4 and six mile ring.  And for all the other boundaries, I think a GPS is your best bet. --Or "Cleared to enter the Bravo"

Are we looking at the same chart? The Seattle Class B has no rings. The sectors are mostly trapazoids. The only thing you can use a the VORTAC for is to the SEA approach corridor which has a 12NM arc.

[fluffysheap]

1800' south of the ship channel or 520, 3000' south of the north end of Lake Washington and west of Lake Sammamish, or over Puget Sound, and 5000' otherwise.  Overall boundaries of the class-B area are the south end of Puget Sound to the south, Paine Field to the north, and the edge of the mountains to the east.  It hasn't changed that much since I was there.  Some of the altitudes used to be higher, but I didn't find it mattered that much.  I never paid any attention to the approach sectors and just treated the whole city south of 520/the ship channel as 1800'.  It's only a 200' difference.

 

Seattle is a fun place to fly.  The weather is usually terrible, but when the weather is VFR, there are plenty of easily identifiable landmarks.  If you're not IFR, look out the window, and you'll be fine.  If you are, then it doesn't matter anyway.

[Marauder]

So your idea is to use the chart, pick off all the lat/longs of all the boundries and then navigate off of them. Remember not the entire aviation community is using a moving map display, including me. The FAA requires a mode C transponder and radio to enter the 30 mile Class B ring. I don't think a GPS is required. So they should give the VFR pilot some way to navigate the area. If it is not possible to do so with that equipment then they should make a moving map GPS a requirement.

With the ever increasing complexity of airspace, especially Class B, I think his point was that a GPS would help simplify your navigating of this airspace. Between the unique shape of the Bravo, underlying Class D and even a Prohibited airspace, I personally would not even try to navigate this airspace without a better way to identify the boundaries.

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[Bob - S50]

Good old fashioned pilotage just like they used to do it in the olden days before navaids.  Study the heck out of the TAC before you go, find some good ground references to keep you out of trouble, and keep your head out of the cockpit.

 

Or you could ask Seattle approach for vectors through/around their airspace.

 

Have fun,

 

Bob

[carusoam]

I picture the Garmin Marketing guy behind the mandatory GPS suggestion...

Brilliant!

-a-

[Marauder]

I picture the Garmin Marketing guy behind the mandatory GPS suggestion...

Brilliant!

-a-

Or the Bendix King guy.

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[carusoam]

When the BK guy has the deliverables....

C'mon BK guy, where are you!

-a-

[jlunseth]

You guys using Foreflight to stay out of the B rings do know there was an enforcement action against a pilot who did that a few years ago and the GPS did not mark his correct location.  I use GPS for this task I fly out of the MSP Bravo, but use only the certified stuff on the panel to mark the rings.

[1964-M20E]

So your idea is to use the chart, pick off all the lat/longs of all the boundries and then navigate off of them. Remember not the entire aviation community is using a moving map display, including me.  The FAA requires a mode C transponder and radio to enter the 30 mile Class B ring. I don't think a GPS is required. So they should give the VFR pilot some way to navigate the area. If it is not possible to do so with that equipment then they should make a moving map GPS a requirement.

As for the FAA making more equipment mandatory I say HECK NO!  The FAA already sticks it’s nose too deep into our business.

 

Yes it appears to be a very complicated airspace and unless I was flying there on a regular basis it would be extremely difficult to know where the Bravo airspace begins and ends.  It would take a lot of attention to detail trying to navigate close to the airspace VFR.  If I were to fly in the area I’d be talking with approach and get permission to be in the bravo and tell them where I want to go or what I want to see and photograph or I’d go on and IFR flight plan.

 

On a positive note the shape of the airspace appears that they are trying to minimize areas of the Bravo where not necessary i.e. on the flanks of the airport or maybe it is just mountain ranges that are interfering with what they really want.