New or used avionics? New or dated technology?

[scottfromiowa]

I am putting a couple of kids through college and am sole owner of my '66 M20E.  Since buying my plane I have attempted to update my panel on a budget.  I have no dreams of a flat panel or flying to minimums.  I have purchased the following avionics "used" 1. Comm panel 2. Intercom 3. Garmin GNC300XL 4. Garmin 496 5. Gem 602 (new probes)

I have experienced no problems with any of the equipment which was tested prior to installation.  What are others experiences with purchasing "pre-owned" equipment?

I personally am VERY happy that many are continuing to update to the latest and greatest, as it give a bottom feeder like me the opportunity to obtain functioning improved (over my existing) avionics at a nice price...

[RJBrown]

I am looking to replace a KLN88 Loran to get IFR direct capability back. I am not in a position to "do it right" with a 430/530 total upgrade. All I really want is the capability Obama stole from me. Any cheap and easy suggestions? 

[fantom]

Quote: RJBrown

Any cheap and easy suggestions? 

[RJBrown]

Quote: fantom

 Garmin Aera 510, and fib

[RJBrown]

Quote: RJBrown

 Garmin Aera 510, and fib

[Piloto]

Don't buy anything with vacuum tubes. Avionics after 1980 are mostly solid state. Most wear is on the controls, like frequency and volume controls. Contact cleaner will fix most of them. Unlike engines, avionics in most cases don't wear out unless exposed to continuos heat.

José

 

[N201MKTurbo]

You don't have to fib. Ded reconing is a legal form of IFR navigation. If that makes you uncomfortable ask for a vector. As long as you don't say that you navigating by GPS you are in the clear. ATC will often ask "can you navigate to XXXX" to which I reply "Affermative". They don't ask how and I don't tell them how I'm doing it.

I remember reading a story once in Flying where one of the writers was riding along in an airliner on a trip from St Louis to Miami, just after takeoff the captain asked ATC for direct Miami and ATC granted his request. The writer didn't see any long range nav gear and asked the captain how he was navigating? The captain pointed out the windshield and said "Miami is that way"...

[fantom]

....yes, but those IMC GPS approaches require some creativity ;-)

[Guest Anonymous]

Randy, to replace a KLN-88, with TSO'd avionics, you will pay a premium for Garmin, period.

Given your stated contraints and $$$, I would look around for a used or reconditioned KLN-90B or KLN-94.  There are some good deals out there because they do not have the "pretty".  But they work OK and are good for IFR /G.  Also, the mounting tray and back connector is very close to the KLN-88, although an antenna change, possible co-ax reroute and some changes on the connector/tray will be required.  The good news is very high reliability and good support.

If that is still too expensive, look around for an old ARNAV STAR 5000 unit.  It is VFR,  and you will be limited to "vectors, direct when able" enroute and  overlaying GPS on VHF approaches only, but it has direct capability, custom waypoints and vertical nav -- all for little more than a song.  I had one for a long time and often went KOLM to KMFR "Vectors, direct when able" (controllers sneaky way of OKing direct without /G).  Database is still supported, and its built like a tank.  Brighter display than an older Garmin 150 too!

RFB

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: RJBrown

I am looking to replace a KLN88 Loran to get IFR direct capability back. I am not in a position to "do it right" with a 430/530 total upgrade. All I really want is the capability Obama stole from me. Any cheap and easy suggestions? 

[Stefanovm]

Several of the approaches that I would like to frequently use have a DME requirement. My new to me M20E's DME is a King 65 with KI 265 remote that does not work. From the logs, it seems to have never worked very well. Are there suggestions on a replacement for the King? My C152 had a KNS 80 that I really liked using, but I think it is too big considering the Mooney available panel room.

I would guess if I made the KLN 94 IFR certified, it might work. My local radio shop says do not bother. I have another radio shop that I have used 80 miles away versus 7 miles that seems more inclined to work on existing equipment rather than pushing new Garmins. I do not have that kind of funding.

 

[Elmer]

I put a KNS-80 in my M20B last year.  I was at the avionics shop with a bad radio that was going to cost a bundle.  I was complaining of the lack of the ability to go direct legally and the shop owner told me he had a good used RNAV that would take care of the problem.  Even though I use my yoke mounted Garmin 295 to go everywhere I go, I am able to use this as a backup and it works really well.  Until I get the funds to upgrade my panal to an IFR Certified GPS, this will have to do and it I am very pleased with it.   Cheap fix for nagging problem.

[RJBrown]

The install to be IFR legal seems to be a big cost. Lots of old usable units around. The avionics shop I talked to wanted a bunch to put in a old kln90/94. Something about annunciators and such to make it legal. 2-3 AMU installed and running would be easy. Over that I'd just keep what I have till I can get what I want. Seems these older units can be had for under 1 AMU but to get it running is what'l kill ya.

I guess there is no plug n play replacement for the KLN88.

I had a KNS 80 in my Rocket and it served the make it legal purpose but I really did not want to go that way. I did like using it though.

[Alan Fox]

I think a KLN90 or 90B will fit the 88 tray with a rewire and antenna , You can use an old nav head for a indicator , or get a used switch annunciator to make it legal...  The labor to put it in will be more than the used equipment , There are a lot of good avionics shops/dealers on ebay , and you can do quite well if you research your seller , I bought my sandel Efis/compass system  used on ebay , as well as many mooney parts , Good luck..

[Qwalton]

I have a kns80 in my panel and I love it.  I use it all the time, and along with the garmin 695 I have on the yoke it makes direct-to ifr pretty easy.  I'm thinking of having an apollo GX-50 put into my panel, but even if I do I'm planning on keeping the kns80 as a backup. 

[Immelman]

I too have a KLN88 paper weight I'm thinking about lately.

The one viewpoint I'll add here is the 'dated technology' aspect. The garmin 430/530 went into production in what? 1998? 1999? Yes, these are the primo units in today's market, but they are in fact dated (my KLN88 was installed in 1990 as top of the line gear).

[jrjaks]

Quote: Qwalton

 I'm thinking of having an apollo GX-50 put into my panel, but even if I do I'm planning on keeping the kns80 as a backup. 

[Qwalton]

Quote: jrjaks

 Just be aware that if something goes wrong with the display in that GX-50, it can't be fixed.  I had a GX-60 in my panel, and the display began going haywire.  I called the division of Garmin that handles the old Apollo units and they said they can't repair them at all.  Fortunately, there were about $2,500 in rebates being offered at the time by Garmin for exchanging a GX-60 for a GNS-430W, so I went ahead and did it, (last October or so).  I had no plans to spend that money, (which I didn't have!), but I have to admit, I enjoy the 430 and WAAS.

[Cruiser]

The thing is, we all will be driven to upgrade our navigation equipment based on the approaches that the FAA decide to maintain. There have been and will continue to be a reduction in NDB and VOR based approaches.

Many airports have GPS only approaches these days. More and more NDBs are being NOTAMed OTS with no intention of bringing them back on line. The VOR system is already scheduled to be abandoned. Without GPS approach approved equipment, you will be forced to fly (IFR) to airports that have an ILS approach in order to land.

[kallend]

Quote: scottfromiowa

I am putting a couple of kids through college and am sole owner of my '66 M20E.  Since buying my plane I have attempted to update my panel on a budget.  I have no dreams of a flat panel or flying to minimums.  I have purchased the following avionics "used" 1. Comm panel 2. Intercom 3. Garmin GNC300XL 4. Garmin 496 5. Gem 602 (new probes)

I have experienced no problems with any of the equipment which was tested prior to installation.  What are others experiences with purchasing "pre-owned" equipment?

I personally am VERY happy that many are continuing to update to the latest and greatest, as it give a bottom feeder like me the opportunity to obtain functioning improved (over my existing) avionics at a nice price...

[Jerry 5TJ]

Re the GX50 and similar --  you need current database updates loaded to be IFR legal, and I don't think data cards for those II Morrow orphans are available from Garmin at all.    Yes, the GX50 displays are no longer available, either.  

I just noticed on the Garmin site that the GNS430 and GNS530 are listed as "discontinued" models, too; only the -W versions are current production.

 

 

 

 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: jerry-N5911Q

Re the GX50 and similar --  you need current database updates loaded to be IFR legal, and I don't think data cards for those II Morrow orphans are available from Garmin at all.    Yes, the GX50 displays are no longer available, either.  

I just noticed on the Garmin site that the GNS430 and GNS530 are listed as "discontinued" models, too; only the -W versions are current production.

[mjc]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Dont get me wrong - I would LOVE to have a 430 or 530 in the panel of my Mooney, but the cost vs benefit analysis just doesn't merit the change.  The Apollo units are great pieces of gear and if you fly with a 496 or other portable with XM WX you aren't loosing out on any of the situational awarness that the newer, more expensive modern boxes provide.  The biggest advantage as I see it is the high levels of integration you get with a 430 or 530.  Putting WX, Traffic (assuming a mode S xponder) and Comms in one box is nice...but not nessesary.

Also...How much faster will your Mooney go spending $15k to install a Garmin 530?  The answer is obvious.

[danb35]

Quote: mjc

Another issue I have is ADS-B. Without getting into whether or not it benefits us, the only GA ADS-B setup right now is the Garmin 330ES transponder, which in order to work requires a connection with a panel-mount GNS-430W.

[jrjaks]

Quote: GeorgePerry

Luckily this is not true.  Garmin AT at 1-800-525-6726 will service the Apollo GX line of IFR GPS's.  Here's a link to the website

http://www8.garmin.com/support/outofwarranty.html

To have a GX-50 refurbished the cost is $400 and to referb and a GX 60 the cost is $500.