Abandoned Planes

[1964-M20E]

Did I miss something on the boards recently? Did this NON commercial category get approved?

Not yet but we are waiting impatiently   

[orionflt]

Did I miss something on the boards recently? Did this NON commercial category get approved?

Yes it did, just the other day. now the FAA has until Dec 15 2015 to do the re write

[DaV8or]

these are great candidates for the new NON commercial category. Owner approved maintenance with low cost equipment.

 

I agree completely. If this type of catagory ever comes to be, it could be the only salvation for the rotting airplanes that are at nearly every airport in America. There is a rotting '65 M20C tied down outside my hangar. It hasn't moved in the nearly 3 years I've been here. I have no idea when it last flew.

 

I got to meet the old guy that owns it and a Piper Aztec across the taxiway one day. Real nice guy, but just living in a delusional fantasy in his mind. He'd like to sell the Aztec, but he knows that he wouldn't get much for it in today's market, so he keeps it. The Mooney just needs a battery in his mind and off he'll go one of these days when he gets around to it.   Truth is, he doesn't look like it would be easy to pass a medical and probably not a BFR either and I think he knows his flying days are over. I think he likes maintaining the dream and it gives him something to do. He does come down to the airport to pump up the tires, fire up the lawn mower tug, wash them off, rearrange the wheel chocks and reinstall the gust locks that keep falling off. His kids, or next of kin will have to deal with these planes. Just for giggles, here they are...

 

 

[rbridges]

Did he say why they stopped flying?  I'm assuming something happened to him.

[DaV8or]

Yes it did, just the other day. now the FAA has until Dec 15 2015 to do the re write

 

Don't get your hopes too high yet. What passed was a mandate for the FAA to come up with ways to streamline part 23 certification based on the 14 CFR Part 23 Reorganization Rulemaking Committee report and to maybe consider some sort of owner maintained category similar to what is now in Canada only because the suggestion is contained in the report. The bill that passed has no mandate for an owner maintained category. The bill that passed is really short and very vague. This may end up being a great thing for GA, or just same ol', same ol'. Here is the bill that passed. A real quick read.

[DaV8or]

Did he say why they stopped flying?  I'm assuming something happened to him.

No, he didn't. He spoke in terms like he was current, both planes were airworthy and ready to fly any day. Looking at the planes, knowing they haven't moved in at least 3 years and talking with him, you realize that it is all fantasy, but who am I to try to burst his bubble? I just smiled, nodded and listened as he tried to kick some Mooney knowledge to me. Some of these old guys just want somebody to listen to them tell stories and I'm willing to do it as I know I will one day soon be in their place. He did say that he wanted to sell the Aztec because he no longer needed it since his wife passed. He said that he only kept it to haul her and all her luggage around.

[Jamie]

If you have enough money to pay property tax / tie down on stuff like that, why not keep it flying and pay an instructor for "instruction". I know at least a few people who continue to fly legally by paying a licensed pilot to sit in the right seat.

 

How's the saying go? "Every pilot will have a last flight. The lucky ones know it's their last flight."  I hope when my time comes, I manage it a little better.

[chrisk]

This whole discussion reminds me of my search for a plane.  I called a broker about a Bonanza V35 and got a copy of the logs.   It was several years out of annual, so I told them I wasn't interested.  The broker then proceeded to tell me that the owner continued to fly the plane out of annual.  --Needless to say I didn't buy that plane.   And why does it seem Bonanza and Broker go together?

 

We also have an abandon Mooney at my home field (KGTU)  I think it is a M20K 252.  It had a gear up.  The engine was removed a few years ago, and there it sits...  The mechanic said something about a loan and insurance issues.  I expect it will get hauled off to the scrap heap some year.

[carusoam]

When you reach the end, you probably won't care when somebody calls to talk about a lowball offer.

Consider some level of compassion if you plan to have that conversation go somewhere productive.

Best regards,

-a-

[DaV8or]

If you have enough money to pay property tax / tie down on stuff like that, why not keep it flying and pay an instructor for "instruction". I know at least a few people who continue to fly legally by paying a licensed pilot to sit in the right seat.

 

How's the saying go? "Every pilot will have a last flight. The lucky ones know it's their last flight."  I hope when my time comes, I manage it a little better.

 

Honestly, I think a lot of these older guys on a fixed income with declining savings, like a lot people, can't really afford to operate the airplane much less pay somebody to fly them around. I guess they can afford the tie downs and the taxes though... to each their own. 

 

Maybe they know full well that their beloved birds are headed to the scrap heap and they would rather pay to not have that happen on their watch?

[SkyPilot]

Yes stay away. Chances are if it's sat there for any length of time you won't have any radio upgrades and you will get a long list of bad parts at your next annual inspection. My bird was flown about 10 hours a year by the mechanic after the owner died. Every year the annual got done. The compressions were still good when I bought it 3 years ago but the list of things I replaced in the first 1.5 years totalled over $10,000. Among them all the fuel lines, leaking fuel tanks, fuel gaskets on the sending units, starter, etc. mostly it was labour. I just put in another $8000 worth of radios last year and this year I started on stage one of the autopilot overhaul. Thankfully I have a Brittain so it is affordable and the service is great.

Remember, my plane was flown 10 hours a year and received routine maintenance. Plus it was hangered. Be afraid of an outside stored bird that hasn't flown for a long time.

[bdjohn4]

I don't know that I would run, necessarily. Some guys will get satisfaction in the restoration process itself. I did. Some guys just want to fly. I resonate with both. You can pay what you initially think is a good price for an airworthy example, like me, only to find that first annual costs several 10s of thousands of $$$ because you picked the wrong guy to assist with the pre-buy inspection (like me... caveat emptor learned painfully), or you can pay $3-5k on something that has been sitting in a field and frankly, the owner has forgotten about, and have a challenging project, but not as challenging as, say, building an Experimental from scratch. If you have the time, you like to tinker, and want to fly a certified ACFT, I don't see a problem with a re-build.

[N601RX]

Honestly, I think a lot of these older guys on a fixed income with declining savings, like a lot people, can't really afford to operate the airplane much less pay somebody to fly them around. I guess they can afford the tie downs and the taxes though... to each their own. 

 

Maybe they know full well that their beloved birds are headed to the scrap heap and they would rather pay to not have that happen on their watch?

There is a older guy a a nearby airport that is no longer able to fly his Cessna by himself, but still likes and wants to fly.  There is also a person in their early 20 who wants to fly but can't afford to very much.  So most Saturdays, weather permitting the young guy picks the older guy up at his house and they go to the airport and go fly the older guys plane for an hr or so.  They have been doing this for several years.

[Marauder]

There is a older guy a a nearby airport that is no longer able to fly his Cessna by himself, but still likes and wants to fly. There is also a person in their early 20 who wants to fly but can't afford to very much. So most Saturdays, weather permitting the young guy picks the older guy up at his house and they go to the airport and go fly the older guys plane for an hr or so. They have been doing this for several years.

Nice example of paying it forward. I have been flying with a student who is struggling financially to find the money to fly. I take him up and give him some pointers, but most importantly, some yoke time.

[rbridges]

Nice example of paying it forward. I have been flying with a student who is struggling financially to find the money to fly. I take him up and give him some pointers, but most importantly, some yoke time.

 

 

That's really nice of you.  I've been struggling to put a GTN750 in my plane.  Can you help me with that?  

[DaV8or]

There is a older guy a a nearby airport that is no longer able to fly his Cessna by himself, but still likes and wants to fly.  There is also a person in their early 20 who wants to fly but can't afford to very much.  So most Saturdays, weather permitting the young guy picks the older guy up at his house and they go to the airport and go fly the older guys plane for an hr or so.  They have been doing this for several years.

 

That's a great arrangement if people can make that connection. I'm not sure how more connections like this could be made though...

[Marauder]

That's really nice of you.  I've been struggling to put a GTN750 in my plane.  Can you help me with that?  

 

Sure, I will go over to Peter's plane and borrow his for you...

[DrBill]

That's like me and my friend/instructor.. I lost my medical for a year or so while they zap some brain tumors so I take him flying and he can log Complex MOONEY time and I get dual and can stay current. We both have a good time and learn something.

BILL

[Matt Michael]

I recently saw an F model sitting at a little airport south of KC and inquired. It was ferried in with a replacement prop after a gear up landing. Now owned by local maintenance shop. He showed me the logs and filled me in. Crank dialed good, put some patches on the belly, flew it from TX. Doesn't have time to deal with it and judging by all the major projects going in his shop I believe it. Engine is less than 300 SMOH but will need prop strike inspection. All logs avail, 201 cowling and 1 piece belly skin included. Ferry-able. Exterior paint rough, old panel with some empty slots. No visible fuel leaks or corrosion. I think he was asking $23K firm. I'd say its the perfect project. Someone should get it before he parts it out. I'm going for an E with a 430, my project days are over I think

[KSMooniac]

That does sound like a potentially good project.  That price isn't much higher than salvage value, unless the panel is already gutted.  Are the 201 cowl and 1 piece belly already installed, or just parts included with the sale?

[Matt Michael]

Cowl and belly skin not installed.  The plane is at K81 Miami County.  Great little BBQ restaurant there!  I cant find my contact for the shop but will keep looking for the card I took.  If you call the airport manager he'll give you the number.  The guy seemed like a decent straight shooter.  His shop was clean and there was a lot going on.  It's a very tempting project.

[Shadrach]

Scott, if you're not interested, I might be!

[fantom]

That does sound like a potentially good project.  That price isn't much higher than salvage value, unless the panel is already gutted.  Are the 201 cowl and 1 piece belly already installed, or just parts included with the sale?

 

Just what a newly married guy needs.....yet another project

[KSMooniac]

Scott, if you're not interested, I might be!

 

Oh, I'm not interested at all!     I'm just thinking it sounds like a good project and anything keeps another Mooney from being scrapped is good in my book.  I actually talked with a guy up there a while back when he was looking for some parts.  If my plane was airworthy currently I'd zip up there for some good BBQ and put eyes on it just to help anyone that might be interested.

[KSMooniac]

Just what a newly married guy needs.....yet another project

 

Somehow the project list has been growing steadily...