Navstrobe lights

[Htwjr]

Is anyone using the navstrobe combination position and strobe lights? How do they work and will they fit my M20C ? Thanks

[mike_elliott]

Yes, I love them! They will fit in your C

Nav strobe lighting is donating a set of them to some lucky attendee of the Mooney Summit feb 7-9th. Now if we can get Phillip on board....

[Lood]

I have them on my F and they're VERY nice! I even have two options wrt strobe flash intervals.

[podair]

wow they really look like a no-brainer!

 

Lood, did you just have to change the bulb in the original nav lights on the M20F and that is IT??

that's all? which ones did you get it seems there is a 7.5w variant and a 30w one?

 

I have been looking at navlight strobe combos now for some time, and looked at Whelen, Aeroled, Aveo etc, which all seem to have great products but this seems to be even simpler. Change the bulb rather than the whole unit? I have the factory standard Grimes navlights (A650?)

 

I have a LED landing light already (Whelen) and very very happy with it.

[Jamie]

So I could have the existing strobes / power supplies removed, right? This looks too good to be true. I was warned that when my hoskins goes, I'd be looking at $1000+. But at this price, I'd do this on the next annual...

[MARZ]

Looking at it I'm guessing that you have to replace the lenses on the wings with Clear glass and the requisite color comes from the bulb?

 

Edit - actually the 30w comes with the clear lens and the 7.5w looks to use the existing lens

[NotarPilot]

When I bought my plane I took the incandescent bulbs out and put the LED drop in replacements in with the colored lenses still in place. You really couldn't see a difference in the red and green color with or without the colored lenses. I ended up not using them when an FAA inspector I know said they were not legal absent a PMA.

In the end I went with the TSO'd Whelen Orion 600 and I'm very happy with it. But it was very pricey.

[omega708]

Yes, I love them! They will fit in your C

Nav strobe lighting is donating a set of them to some lucky attendee of the Mooney Summit feb 7-9th. Now if we can get Phillip on board....

Would you mind posting a picture / video of the lights in action? 

[AmigOne]

I have been using them for a while now, they are a straight replacement for the existing bulb. I have the clear one that shines thru the colored lens. I have seen a video of my airplane on a low pass at dusk and visibility was excellent. Indeed too good to be true but it is, and probably they will get better.

[podair]

OK so which one do I get for a 1967 M20F with the standard Grimes nav lights aka Whelen A650:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/navstrobesextant.php?clickkey=110392

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/navstrobesextant1.php?clickkey=110392

 

the second one is experimental aircraft only and does not have the clear lenses. Apart from that it seems identical?

 

edited to add: actually they look different now, on the other website the bulbs looked identical so the first option at $266 seems the correct one.

Even the first one at $266 is a great deal, think I ll go for that one.

[mike_elliott]

The 30w $266 unit is the correct ones.

[mike_elliott]

I will when I get time to get to my plane. Right now I'm in Tx. with someone else's Bravo and have a weeks worth of catch up to do when I get back

Here is a video to placate you meanwhile.

www.navestrobelighting.com/pages/YouTube-video.html

[mike_elliott]

make that www.navstrobelighting.com/pages/youTube-video.html

[kmyfm20s]

The 30w $266 unit is the correct ones.

My J has a strobe on the tail, What do you do with the existing tail strobe? Does it need to be converted to handle the new LED or is it a direct plug in? I can see the NAV lights are easy and not a problem.

[philiplane]

While the NavStrobe is a great product, it is still not legal to install on Type Certificated aircraft. The company is pursuing a Canadian PMA, which the FAA will recognize. Until then, you would need a Field Approval to install them. You will also need special placarding for the nav light switch to describe the operations of the new system.

 

The company claims that the lamps meet the TSO requirements of the FAA, but that is less than half the battle. Meeting a TSO qualifies a part as aircraft quality, and then you need a Parts Manufacturing Approval to sell a standard (TSO) product as an approved part. Under our current regs these are only for experimental aircraft. One day we'll get better regs that encourage innovative products like these, and cut the cost so more people can enjoy the benefits of improved lighting. 

 

I am in contact with NavStrobe and will post the PMA letter once it is approved. This may be 4-6 weeks, or 4-6 months, depending on Canadian bureaucracy.

[Steve65E-NC]

The navstrobe package at Aircraft Spruce looks very attractive at $250+. However, I have a three strobe combination with a single power supply in tail. Strobe lamps are built into nav fixtures on wing tip. Maybe just have both. Wonder how they would work together? Maybe pull old strobe system and improve W&B.

I still have a rotating beacon but understand that I could maybe just discard it given the strobe system. Wonder if this is also true with the navstrobe package alone?

[omega708]

While the NavStrobe is a great product, it is still not legal to install on Type Certificated aircraft. The company is pursuing a Canadian PMA, which the FAA will recognize. Until then, you would need a Field Approval to install them. You will also need special placarding for the nav light switch to describe the operations of the new system.

 

The company claims that the lamps meet the TSO requirements of the FAA, but that is less than half the battle. Meeting a TSO qualifies a part as aircraft quality, and then you need a Parts Manufacturing Approval to sell a standard (TSO) product as an approved part. Under our current regs these are only for experimental aircraft. One day we'll get better regs that encourage innovative products like these, and cut the cost so more people can enjoy the benefits of improved lighting. 

 

I am in contact with NavStrobe and will post the PMA letter once it is approved. This may be 4-6 weeks, or 4-6 months, depending on Canadian bureaucracy.

Thanks for picking up that torch, so-to-speak.  Let us know when they receive their PMA and I'll order a set that day... 

[AmigOne]

The navstrobe package at Aircraft Spruce looks very attractive at $250+. However, I have a three strobe combination with a single power supply in tail. Strobe lamps are built into nav fixtures on wing tip. Maybe just have both. Wonder how they would work together? Maybe pull old strobe system and improve W&B.

I still have a rotating beacon but understand that I could maybe just discard it given the strobe system. Wonder if this is also true with the navstrobe package alone?

Personally I would not discard you existing strobe combination if it is working normally. The navstrobes are a poor man's strobe system and a very good one at that. Since the navstrobes replace the existing navlight bulb and are independent of each other they can be changed individually.

[fantom]

Since the navstrobes replace the existing navlight bulb and are independent of each other they can be changed individually.

 

Keep your existing strobes and add the new navstrobes....best of both worlds.

[cliffy]

Man, I want to use these also BUT philplane is correct- THEY ARE NOT LEGAL YET ON CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT no matter what the company ad says! And please note that on their website under "About" they specifically say that the 7.5 watt units are 'non-compliant" in very fine print as the last sentence. 

 

If you look at the TSO you will find specific manufactures listed as being in compliance with the TSO, this company is not listed.

As mentioned, it can be "designed" to meet the TSO but if it is not approved as a TSO product, it is not legal. The testing is quite extensive and expensive to qualify as meeting the TSO. In addition, as mentioned, one has to hold a PMA (Parts Manufacturing Approval) to manufacture and sell a/c parts for certified airplanes.

 

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet 

 

These look like a neat way to improve our planes but right now we can't use them. Our regs are so antiquated that they inhibits innovation but they are the only ones we have. They are a morass of minutia that only dedicated bureaucrats can comprehend on a daily basis.  

 

Many thanks to philplane for trying to work with the manufacturer. I await his next posting so maybe we can all use these. 

[MARZ]

I guess the only thing I would challenge is that the TSO would apply to the light assemblies not the replacement bulbs.... Wamco lists all of their aviation replacement bulbs on aircraft spruce - but a quick search of the TSO database didn't turn them up - in fact the GE bulb numbers they list can be had at Grainger.

[philiplane]

The TSO for lighting really doesn't concern the light assembly since it governs the light output, color, and degrees of coverage. So it focuses completely on the lamp, not it's housing. Many companies make replacement lamps (and other parts) for aircraft. But only the ones who have applied for and received a PMA can sell them as aircraft parts. There is no grey area here, you either have a PMA issued by the FAA or you don't. There is no such thing as simply "meets the TSO" in aircraft parts, whether we're talking navigation lamps, or crankshafts, or tires. Parts is parts. This is where folks have to ask the right questions about replacement parts. The person ultimately responsible for the airworthiness of the aircraft is not the mechanic, or Aircraft Spruce, or Jim Bob's Genuine Aircraft Parts Company, it's the pilot. 

[cliffy]

Here is everything you ever wanted to know about nav lights and TSO approval and compliance.  Also, Aveo Engineering spent a long time getting their LED lights TSO approved. I looked at them several years ago and when I saw they were not TSO'd I didn't put them on my Mooney. Now that they are TSO'd I might, as they are pretty good looking  and way bright. I've seen them on experimentals and they are bright even in daylight.

 

In addition, the owner of the airplane is responsible for the maintenance being done on the a/c. Per FAR 91.403

§ 91.403 General.

(a) The owner or operator of an aircraft is primarily responsible for maintaining that aircraft in an airworthy condition, including compliance with part 39 of this chapter.

Part 39 deals with complying with ADs.

Here also is a link to the AOPA web article on Owner Performed Maintenance. Note that it includes the requirement to sign off in the log book any "Preventive Maintenance" that you do as and owner of the airplane.

 

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/PIC-archive/Aircraft-Ownership/Preventive-Maintenance.aspx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TSO-C30 
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidan... 

ADDED; See the following : 
Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) 
Part 21, Certification Procedures for Products, Articles, and Parts. http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/tex... 

Advisory Circulars 
20-110, Index of Aviation Technical Standard Orders http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidan... 
 

20-41, Substitute (TSO) Aircraft Equipment http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidan... 

21-43, Production Under 14 CFR Part 21, Subparts F, G, K, and O 
Orders http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/... 

8110.43, Joint Technical Standard Order Authorization for U.S. Article Manufacturershttp://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidan... 

8120.20, Production Approval Procedures http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/... 

8150.1, Technical Standard Order Program http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidan...

[jamesm]

I guess I am not following you guys ....  It my understanding that Nav Strobe bulb and lens replacement and not a  entire replacement for the Navigation light  assembly. Granted there isn't much to Nav light assembly.  So if  1512 /1513 bulb  replacement bulb  is  suitable bulb replacement and  meets original bub specification. I forget AC (advisory circular  ) number that allows replacement parts like switches and  electronic  parts/components  with off the shelf parts being that meets or exceeds the part being replaced.

I think  found the AC  (20-60E part 5 f. )  that I was think of ...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faa.gov%2FdocumentLibrary%2Fmedia%2FAdvisory_Circular%2FAC%252020-62E.pdf&ei=LivjUvn8HMPeoAT0qYGIAQ&usg=AFQjCNHWbXScVmDnsfHCS4Up1KJ9h7OKfA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.cGU&cad=rja

[jetdriven]

James, I agree with you. But the issue I see here is that navstrobe has not produced one bit of data to stand on that shows their bulbs meet or exceed the light output and degrees of viewing angle than a regular GE incandescent bulb. LED bulbs put out a lot of candela in a narrow direction but the big problem is degrees of viewing angle. TSO'd lights do this by putting the LED's in an arrray to meet the viewing angle. I really can't see how these navstrobe lights can do this being mounted on a single plane. The field of view doesn't look like it would pass the test. Check the documentation on the Aveo Red Baron and Combo HISL. The combo has 3000 candela in white and the required viewing angle as well. Real data sheets.