Earl Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I have finally decided to bite the bullet and get my #2 NavComm replaced. After multiple attempts to get it fixed I am giving up. Have had a strong recommendation from the avionics shop to upgrade my 430 to WAAS while I am having the radio replaced. Have flown IFR for 5 years without it and I am wondering if it is really worth the money it will take. Unfortunately I put my 430 in a couple of months before the WAAS upgrade came out and my avionics guy missed the window of opportunity to upgrade cheaply. Opinions from those that fly with WAAS, is it worth the money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac58 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Yes if you do a lot of IFR flying and plan to shoot WAAS approaches. Aside from that is is not probably worth the money. The only technical thing I would point out is if you ever end up doing an Aspen EFIS and want to drop in "connected panel" to sync flight plans with your EFB - this only works on the WAAS 430/530 units. You might also consider getting your GPS on eBay - there a WAAS typically only runs about $1000 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 In a few years you will need a WAAS source for ADS-B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carqwik Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I think that we're all going to need a WAAS GPS by 2020 that ties into the ADS-B...will wait for an avionics guru to chime in. All I know is that my plane will require lots of new avionics to be legal....new GPS (KLN-94 not WAAS upgradeable), new xpdr, and likely more. Heck, while doing that, might as well add other upgrades...like traffic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I will definitely need WAAS by 2020 in order to upgrade my transponder to comply with ads-b but had planned to wait. I fly a lot of IFR and have flown a number of gps approaches where having vertical guidance and lower minimums would have been nice and a few times essential to getting in without an ILS. But at the end of the day I have not had a problem finding an ILS close to where I want to go. I think this falls in the category of being nice, but not essential. As for trading my current 430 for one on ebay, I almost hate to do that because this unit has worked perfectly since install. Hate the idea of starting over with a different used unit.....paranoia runs deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Quick answer..yes it is worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 WAAS really an essential instrument for GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I would say yes, it's definitely worth it. Aside from the WAAS benefits, which may or may not be important to you depending on your type of flying, by sending your unit to Garmin it gets a complete physical and some new parts and boards. The question is what is this physical and new parts worth? It's more than 3k for sure. So even if you don't care for the WAAS per se, at the very least you'll have an upgraded 430W with forward looking technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Look at the available approaches in your area. Yes...and It was really worth it for $1500 in Garmin's waning hours of goodwill (2008). It astonishes me the number of people who didn't take advantage of this upgrade path. It must be over 50% of the GNS boxes that were not converted. Sorry...spilled milk. I'd do it Earl. Just open a binder of instrument procedures and take a tally, especially at smaller dromes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 For some of the smaller airports, the only precision approaches available are RNAV/LPV which requires it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 YES. I cringed when I did the double-WAAS upgrade in 2007 for the $1500 (x2) price, but I'd do it again today at $3000, at least for one. Combine WAAS with a relatively inexpensive GPSS module for your autopilot and you now have the best combo for single-pilot IFR. It is a huge workload reducer, and if you haven't seen it in action go beg a flight with someone that has it and you'll be amazed. If budget is a concern, a lot of GPSS modules are ending up on the used market (for <<$1000) now as folks convert to Aspens and remove them since Aspen includes it. Not to mention you'll need it for the ADS-B requirements eventually...and I doubt the future solutions will be drastically cheaper than what is available today, unfortunately. Might as well enjoy the benefits now (or soon) in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rwsavory Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Given the choice between an ILS and LPV approach, I always choose the RNAV. Having WAAS lets me use precision approaches at airports without an ILS. Very handy for smaller airports. However, if the vast majority of your flying is to airports with a good ILS approach, I would wait and buy a new GPS when you have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
231flyer Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I would get the WAAS upgrade right now. According to the folk at ASTM we should be able to start flying with the Dynon type non-TSO panels in our Mooneys by the end of next year. The Part 23 ARC is law now and ASTM (F44 committee) is developing the standards and regulations to put that into effect. I expect to install the Dynon Skyview panel (same as my Lancair IVP) in my 231 around Xmas next year. You will need the 430 to be IFR compliant, the Dynon suite should get you everything else including ADS compliance for around $15K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 absolutely worth it. You have added way more than that in capabilities and future proofing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 WAAS is worth it for the ability to shoot LPV's to lower minimums, yes, but that was not the biggest benefit I saw when I moved from a non-WAAS GPS to a WAAS GPS. With WAAS, there is no need to perform a RAIM check, or to determine that all the VOR's along your route of flight that would back up the GPS in the event of a GPS outage are working. That was a pain, and unnecessary with WAAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Yes. Maybe not so much if you don't fly IFR. I don't think Garmin is supporting the Non-WAAS units anymore. If your non-WAAS breaks, you have to do the up-grade as part of the repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 How about a GTN 650 as your new #1 radio and keep the non-WAAS 430 as the backup #2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_S Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 YES. I cringed when I did the double-WAAS upgrade in 2007 for the $1500 (x2) price, but I'd do it again today at $3000, at least for one. Combine WAAS with a relatively inexpensive GPSS module for your autopilot and you now have the best combo for single-pilot IFR. It is a huge workload reducer, and if you haven't seen it in action go beg a flight with someone that has it and you'll be amazed. If budget is a concern, a lot of GPSS modules are ending up on the used market (for <<$1000) now as folks convert to Aspens and remove them since Aspen includes it. Not to mention you'll need it for the ADS-B requirements eventually...and I doubt the future solutions will be drastically cheaper than what is available today, unfortunately. Might as well enjoy the benefits now (or soon) in my opinion. Scott hit the nail on the head. If you've not flown in a plane that has WAAS and GPSS you can't fathom how it simplifies your life in IMC. Literally, flying a GPS/RNAV approach with LPV you can set your autopilot one time, and all you have to manage from there on in is your power settings, gear and flaps. The thing flies itself...it's pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 How about a GTN 650 as your new #1 radio and keep the non-WAAS 430 as the backup #2? You and I think alike but the difference is one of us would have to pay for the 650. That is a pretty good idea but I just don't have the scratch to pull it off. I am looking at a $2K replacement radio and $3K for the WAAS upgrade which is about 40% of the cost of the 650 (with install). But I like the way you think!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVIDWH Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 You can do it! My wife does it all the time. I think she calls it a Visa card. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Yes, it is worth-while if you fly IFR in IMC. A specific example -- My M20C's home field has a 270 foot AGL DH using the LPV and 750 foot AGL MDA for the LNAV approach. The VOR approach MDA is over 1000' AGL. When it is cloudy there it is often 600 overcast. The WAAS approach is a great step forward for that airport. If today were 1985 and you were contemplating a new KX165 to replace your Narco Omnigator, you might be asking "is it worth paying the extra $1,000 for the ILS receiver version? I can always just fly the localizer." And, we'd all be saying yes, you want ILS capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 OK, to summarize I have about 80% yea, 15% wait and see, 3% nay and 2% that are trying to talk me into spending three times what I was hoping to spend. Actually this has all been helpful and while my home airport has an ILS I frequently fly to airports only with GPS approaches and thus I think the upgrade would be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I would add in-cockpit weather first...modest investment compared to the capability. I'm about to ditch my 496 for a GDL-39 + tablet solution, although the other ADS-B receivers look good too. That is far more important for IMC XC in my opinion than a panel-mounted GPS. Next on the list would be a 430W or equivalent. Planes don't sell well these days without one, so you might as well add it and get the use out of it before you decide to sell down the road...even if that is years in the future. You'll eventually need WAAS on board too, and as I said above it doesn't look like the price to do that will be lower in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Not to take over the thread (Sorry Earl) but for a non avionics-savy guy like me .... Who has a M20C with two KX155s (one w/GS) and two OBSs ... (no ADF no Dme) what is my best (cheapest but works right and functional for single pilot IFR) option in your opinion ... A 430 WAAS and GLD-39? Do need more? You can carefully pull the KX155s and indicators with their harness as intact as possible and sell them for about half what a good used 430W costs, which eases the pain some. Agree with KSMooniac that portable XM or ADS-B is good for wx, and I feel there's no need for a second panel-mounted GPS. With a second GPS on the yoke and a third in the iPad; that's enough nav back up: "Dual Nav-Com" seems a hold-over from vacuum tube days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBill Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 If my 430 was not WAAS, I would surely spend the $3k to upgrade it. Make sure his quote includes the new antenna and install. BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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