Prop Strike today, October 8, 2013

[midlifeflyer]

I'm saying that the law encourages people who might have been negligent or culpable in some way to right their wrongs without having to fear that their subsequent remedial measures will be used against them in court.  Certainly a good thing, I think we would all agree.

 

Jim

 

Definitely.

 

In complicated theory, it's one of a number of evidence rules that makes things irrelevant, not because they are really irrelevant, but to foster some policy.

 

In simple terms, we don't want to let a bad or unsafe condition continue to exist by giving a disincentive for repairing it. So there's a rule that makes a defendant's later repairs irrelevant for the purpose of assigning fault.

 

From a litigation standpoint it neither proves a case for the plaintiff nor acts as a defense for the defendant. 

 

Kind of like the Miranda warnings. If the police violate the rule, the confession can't be used. But that doesn't mean the criminal gets off (even Miranda himself didn't get off; he was convicted).

[N601RX]

Most all of the airnav customer comments for the last 3 years mentioned how rough the taxiways are.

[Bob_Belville]

Thanks again to all who have offered advice and sympathy. One more picture, coincidentally taken from right in front of my tie down spot after I had tied down and put the cover on (also included, taken at the same time) the day I arrived 6B6. The center of the picture is the offending depression. It looks innocent enough until you zoom in.

[OR75]

I find it surprising (and worrying) that suck a small depression can lead to a prop strike.

 

We all sometime have to park and restart on a dirt area. 

 

What happens if / when a nose tire goes flat ? ? ? ?

[jetdriven]

I find it surprising (and worrying) that suck a small depression can lead to a prop strike.

 

We all sometime have to park and restart on a dirt area. 

 

What happens if / when a nose tire goes flat ? ? ? ?

Our plane partner had a nose tire go flat on landing. The prop clearance is not much, around 3" but it does exist.  Interesting about dirt areas. We went to a small fly-in a couple weeks ago in South Texas.  Out of the 30 or 40 takeoffs and landings, (each with a taxi segment), basically no one use soft field technique, no up elevator during taxi or takeoff, nothing.  One guy had a piper Cherokee 140 with a flat nose strut, and he taxied out to takeoff not even holding the yoke, the stabilator was pointing down. He mowed a lot of grass with that prop and I was certain he was going to hit the ground with it.

[Bob_Belville]

I taxied quite a ways on grass at SunNFun in April without seeing anything risky but a friend with an 1967 F had a prop strike, tear down there after he was inadvertently led into a ditch by a volunteer traffic guide. I've used grass strips many times and was hangered at NC52 for several years with a M20E.

[TWinter]

At my home airport, KDYR they are resurfacing our favored runway 4/22, so it is out of service until December. We have a secondary runway in poor paved condition. There are pot-holes, high spots, low spots and cracks that would swallow a small Cherokee or C152. There also have been two flats during the last three weeks (result of bad luck or poor runway surface-who knows), as well as a few weekly corporate flights have changed venues and are using the next airport to the north of us until ours is done. 

 

Since I know we only have about 10" prop clearance on our Mooneys I admit there have been more than one occassion lately that I've decided to wipe bugs and hanger talk instead of recreational flying. Kind of sucks, but after reading Bob's post and knowing the condition of our crappy runway it really makes you think how close  10" clearance really is.

 

Bob, Hope you get back in te air soon, but also thanks for the reminder of how close the prop is and for us to be extra deligent on runway and taxiway conditions.

 

Good Luck..

[DaV8or]

At my home airport, KDYR they are resurfacing our favored runway 4/22, so it is out of service until December. We have a secondary runway in poor paved condition. There are pot-holes, high spots, low spots and cracks that would swallow a small Cherokee or C152. There also have been two flats during the last three weeks (result of bad luck or poor runway surface-who knows), as well as a few weekly corporate flights have changed venues and are using the next airport to the north of us until ours is done. 

 

Since I know we only have about 10" prop clearance on our Mooneys I admit there have been more than one occassion lately that I've decided to wipe bugs and hanger talk instead of recreational flying. Kind of sucks, but after reading Bob's post and knowing the condition of our crappy runway it really makes you think how close  10" clearance really is.

 

Bob, Hope you get back in te air soon, but also thanks for the reminder of how close the prop is and for us to be extra deligent on runway and taxiway conditions.

 

Good Luck..

 

Here's an idea for you guys- Someday when the traffic pattern is totally dead, go out and walk the runway with a can of that florescent orange spray paint for asphalt, and mark all the pot holes, bumps and depressions. Maybe if you could see the hazards, you would feel better about using the runway until the other one is fixed. I'm sure it's illegal by some FAA reasoning, but maybe just sneak out and do it anyhow.

[RocketAviator]

Here's an idea for you guys- Someday when the traffic pattern is totally dead, go out and walk the runway with a can of that florescent orange spray paint for asphalt, and mark all the pot holes, bumps and depressions. Maybe if you could see the hazards, you would feel better about using the runway until the other one is fixed. I'm sure it's illegal by some FAA reasoning, but maybe just sneak out and do it anyhow.

I am very lucky and have a great home airport that is well maintained but this is a great IDEA....DaV8or!

[TWinter]

Here's an idea for you guys- Someday when the traffic pattern is totally dead, go out and walk the runway with a can of that florescent orange spray paint for asphalt, and mark all the pot holes, bumps and depressions. Maybe if you could see the hazards, you would feel better about using the runway until the other one is fixed. I'm sure it's illegal by some FAA reasoning, but maybe just sneak out and do it anyhow.

Excellent idea!

 

The last flat was on a Cirrus that happened at about 6 pm on a Friday. We have no techs on our field so our FBO line-worker called the AP from an another adjacent  airport ( he was actually off-duty and home ), but responded and helped the Cirrus driver out by fixing the flat.Took a few trips back and forth from our field to his shop. Finally at 11 pm they got the repair finished. With no run-up, no runway lights (remember the only lighted field is being resurfaced) the Cirrus driver handed the AP a check and flys off anyway. The Cirrus guy did ask what he owed and the AP hesitated as he really had not figured the hours etc, he said, just whatever you think is fair.The pilot gave the tech a check, the tech did not want to embarass himself or insult the pilot and just shoved it into his pocket assuming it was fair.  The Cirrus pilot jumped in with no run-up (unwise) and flew off. The check was for $500 bucks. I guess he really wanted to go home..badly.. LOL

[tomn]

Bob, sorry to hear about this. You may not be aware, but Larry did the same thing to N9249M - your previous plane. It got a new prop and a teardown at the time. I hope it all works out well - these sort of things are a real pain.

Tom

[Bob_Belville]

Bob, sorry to hear about this. You may not be aware, but Larry did the same thing to N9249M - your previous plane. It got a new prop and a teardown at the time. I hope it all works out well - these sort of things are a real pain.

Tom

I had not heard about 49M. Larry probably went through several engines!

[AlanA]

Thanks for the post - it's a good reminder to me to stay on yellow and taxi slow. I almost had a prop strike after taxing a little to fast and bouncing over something. My speed caused me to lurch forward and I was almost certain the prop would touch the pavement. fortunately it didn't but I could have avoided the worry if I had just gone slower.

[Bob_Belville]

Well the prop is off to the prop shop... 

 

This shop should have my engine this week.

 

http://unlimitedaeroengines.com/index.html

 

http://www.lycoming.com/Lycoming/SUPPORT/TechnicalPublications/ServiceBulletins.aspx

 

(SB533B 10/4/2012 Recommended Action for Sudden Engine Stoppage, Propeller/Rotor Strike or Loss of Propeller/Rotor Blade or Tip)

[RocketAviator]

Good luck, I hope all goes well for you, it seemed like it took forever for the shop complete my repairs!!!

[Bob_Belville]

Status report - day 14. NE Prop reports that the blades are easily repairable within the 3/8" limit. He says there will still be plenty of blade for several routine overhauls if I don't hit the ground again. He still has to check out the hub. Not replacing the prop will mean I won't be waiting for a new prop should the engine tear down go smoothly. 

[mike_elliott]

Status report - day 14. NE Prop reports that the blades are easily repairable within the 3/8" limit. He says there will still be plenty of blade for several routine overhauls if I don't hit the ground again. He still has to check out the hub. Not replacing the prop will mean I won't be waiting for a new prop should the engine tear down go smoothly. 

 

This is great news, Bob. A new prop would have really postponed your ability to convert avgas into noise for a while

[Bob_Belville]

Well another week, plus, and not much has happened. I talked to the engine shop this afternoon, he will call me Monday with a report on his inspection. The crank and case will not ship out until Monday so very best case is he will not start reassembly for 3 more weeks. OTOH, it seems like Tim will be very thorough and I should have a solid engine for years to come. And I'll use the down time to get the ugly crack in the lower cowl repaired.I suppose the weak Barry engine mounts aggravated the crack.

 

I'll be looking for a pretty day in mid December or later to get out of 6B6!

   

[Bob_Belville]

The prop is back at the plane and ready after overhaul. The engine shop says the case and crank are shipped out for inspection. On tear down Tim reports the engine looks great except for the cam shaft which shows some pitting and spalling on the end. I am not surprised, the FRM engine has 700 hours on it in 12 years but there were months on end when the prior owner did not fly it. I told Tim to replace cam rather than regrind. The difference would only be $900 or so. Absent any more mishaps I should be in great shape to go to TBO which will take it past my expected flying career. The next guy or gal is going to get a really special E.  

[Cruiser]

glad for you that things seem to be working out so well. Good Luck!

[Mooneymite]

If your engine mount hasn't had the AD applied, this would be a good time to get it done as long as your waiting for the engine to be completed.

[Bob_Belville]

If your engine mount hasn't had the AD applied, this would be a good time to get it done as long as your waiting for the engine to be completed.

Thanks, 75-09-08 AD was taken care of with a new mount with the 2001 new engine. We are replacing the worn out Barry mounts with superior Lords. And I'm taking advantage of the downtime to get the lower cowl repaired where the FG is cracked. .

[Bob_Belville]

Latest info. Telcon with shop this morning. things are going pretty well, knock on wood. The Crankshaft is fine and on the road back to MA from the shop in OK, we will hear the results of the crankcase inspection today. The cylinders check out fine, the engine shop will hone and install new rings as part of inspection. Anyone have an informed preference for break-in oil? Straight mineral vs. Phillips XC?

 

I had the lower cowl repaired and repainted while I'm down. I have not seen it yet, but the crack @ front corner had bondo and jury rigged repairs, cowl flap was cracked. In addition to the worn out engine mounts and possible vibration the cowl was under stress due to misaligned fasteners. I'm really happy to get that all done right.  Probably worth 4 or 5 knots.

 

All new hoses and Lord mounts are on order.

 

We'll be in MA over T'giving and if everything continues to go smoothly I might be able to bring 3RW back home shortly after that.  

[rbridges]

awesome.  thanks for the updates.  it's been very informative for me.

[Cruiser]

One vote for straight Mineral Oil, only because that is the only way I have done it.