Fuel additives

[David Brown]

Paul Milner is worth listening to. One of the few guys around who really knows what he is talking about. 

[mike_elliott]

Not that I've ever done it, but wouldn't MMO be good when running LOP since the naysayers state that it's the lack of Pb when running lean that provides inadequate lube to valves?

 

That's solving a problem you don't have

[triple8s]

I can't remember where I saw it or exactly which engine it was but "somewhere" I saw a 6cylinder lyc or TCM with liquid cooled heads. I know the liquid rocket had a liquid cooled engine, but that wasn't the one I saw. Amazing how home building pollutes ones mind.....

[88drvr]

I don't have an opinion one way or another, but here is the quote on MMO that I think the thread starter is referencing...

(Become an advocate to have Marvel’s Mystery Oil gain FAA approval. When mixed with fuel, it burns almost like fuel thus no detonation problems associated and when mixed with fuel at a ratio of usually 4 oz. per ten gallons of fuel added, it lubricates the rubber parts within your fuel system to help keep them soft and supple because when your rubber parts inside the fuel system become cracked from the otherwise dry fuel, the system begins to fail and can even kill your engine, and of course fuel systems are expensive to overhaul. Further the Marvel’s will keep your valve guides lubricated; a weak point of the Lycoming engine especially. Additionally, MMO will soak, loosen, and remove carbon buildup inside your cylinders. Some people even put it in their oil 1⁄2-1 quart at oil change because when the engine is shut down, the oil falls off of the ferrous metal parts and they become exposed to the beginnings of corrosion. MMO will coat those parts and stay coated when even lessens the wear from cold starts before the oil can circulate. Did you know that about 80% of engine wear comes not from flying the engine, but from starting it? If you know your airplane well, you will feel a slight elevation in vibration. That is because the MMO is removing the carbon which in turn goes out the exhaust valves making them shake just a bit, but once the carbon is gone, that engine will never have run as smoothly and if you were to miss putting some in when you refuel, again if you know your bird well, you will feel the difference. MMO is owned by the Turtle Wax Corporation last I checked and they should be rallied to get MMO approved for use in aircraft. Heck, ask any Harley driver if he uses MMO, Most will say heck yes! MMO works best in air cooled engines, but I also use it in my ferocious ’97 hotrod Lincoln MK VIII fun car. I also use it in my riding mower’s engine as those like to carbon up easily that this prevents that from forming. I had the head off recently and there was no carbon inside and the piston looked brand new.)

[David Brown]

You are really taking the …..mickey out us? 

 

Ed Kolin, the guy behind cam guard has this to say……and he is qualified to comment

 

 

 

This from Ed:


MMO is 30 weight basestock, 25% Stoddard solvent (varsol), 1% dichlorobenzene, red dye and wintergreen fragrance. The solvent evaporates within 15 minutes of starting the engine.

Avblend is 99% 0 weight paraffinic basestock (was Mobil for a long time), 1% dimethylether and blue dye. It evaporates in the first few hours.

There is no more than anecdotal evidence supporting these products because there is nothing in them.

Ed
__________________
Edward Kollin 
Technical Director - Aircraft Specialties Lubricants
Makers of CamGuard
http://www.aslcamguard.com

 

 

Good for using on rusty bolts and nuts maybe. Good for lowering octane in your fuel. 

[DaV8or]

You are really taking the …..mickey out us? 

 

Ed Kolin, the guy behind cam guard has this to say……and he is qualified to comment

 

 

 

Good for using on rusty bolts and nuts maybe. Good for lowering octane in your fuel. 

 

I'm no fan of MMO and would not put it in my gas, but to be fair, the quote you took from Ed was in reference to putting MMO in the oil, rather than the gas.

 

To the OP-

 

I met Zef years ago and really remember his website with all it's wacky color and epilepsy tests. It did have some good Mooney info in there and it's too bad a lot of it is gone, but Zef was a real colorful character. Lot's of good knowledge, but I would take his engine advise with a grain of salt. Not his area of expertize. It does not surprise me at all that he would recommend MMO as a long life cure all, he was just that kind of guy. The kind that would trust backwoods tinkerers, old timers and experimenters with anecdotal evidence before hard science and the establishment. I personally believe that putting MMO in your gas will do absolutely no harm unless you pour the whole gallon in or something. If it helps you sleep at night, you really believe you're doing good things for your engine and you don't mind the added expense, go for it.

 

Personally, I would suggest saving your money and fly on. Flying is expensive enough in your neck of the woods as it is.

[pinerunner]

Ditto. I liked that you had some data to give us.

 

I'm referring to Blue Eagles earlier post. Quote doesn't seem to be working for me.

[pinerunner]

Camguard in the oil gets good reviews for helping keep the valves lubricated. I guess something about its chemistry makes it stick while ordinary oil drains off. In M.B.'s Savy Aviator vid he says he's actually tested it and seen a positive effect so he recommends it for his customers. One of our members posted some pictures of valves with and without TCP in the fuel that made a case for TCP fighting lead deposits. M.B. has mentioned a couple times that fuel already has an additive to fight lead deposits as long as you don't run it too cool (there's chemistry going on that fails at lower CHT's). I wonder if proper mixture management makes TCP in the fuel irrelevant.  I'd watch the 1-hr vid on oil that you can find in the Savy Aviator website. As I recall it Camguard is the only additive the gets the thumb's up from Busch. Most of the others simply don't hurt anything. 

 

With that I take their ad claims that Camguard helps "prevent scuffing wear from dry starts by maintaining an active lubricant film on critical parts" seriously and use it along with Aeroshell 100 in the summer. Because of my working away from home I tend to let it sit more than I'd like so this sort of thing is a big issue to me.

 

Note 2: Camguard, MMO, and Avblend are different products. Some of the posts here seem to equate Camguard with the other two.

[David Brown]

Camguard is a corrosion inhibitor and is not there for any better valve lubrication or anything like that.

 

It is only used in the oil as described in the instructions.

 

Here is another tip, which came from Ed Kolin directly.

 

Camguard is ideally suited for use in most Aviation oils, however due to the base oil used in Shell's Aeroshell 15W-50 Ed prefers owners to use either Shell W100plus or W100 and Camguard, or if it is a multigrade you want to operate with, use Phillips 20W-50 and cam guard. He does make some comments about others but this is the preference he has. While the chemistry aspect is really heavy going, the way he explains it makes sense.

[bonal]

Wow the MMO debate lives hear too. lake aero says don't use it and I won't but check this out. My F250 started back firing and dying when I switched to the rear tank and would run fine when back on the front tank. The rear tank does not get used enough. I figured the high pressure pump was failing. Well in went some MMO and the problem ended. That was over a year ago and it's still working fine.

[Rich]

I've seen it work on a Honda Goldwing too. BAD morning sickness that was cured with MMO- forever. "Snake oil" it might be, but it is a great top end lubricant.