ADSB-IN

[ChristianGodin]

Anyone can tell me how fast ADSB-IN is updating compare to wx?

[clh]

It seams to update about the same or at least similar -5min. The only difference I notice is a little less resolution.

[jnisley]

It seams to update about the same or at least similar -5min. The only difference I notice is a little less resolution.

I agree

However, I've found that textual METARS consistently (three separate trips) updated 9-16 minutes earlier on ADS-B than on XM.

Attached are photos that compare ADS-B and XM in light rain. You can see that the darker green displayed on XM is the only green displayed on ADS-B. The only time it was actually raining was when flying through the darker green.

[jnisley]

Also, i just noticed that the time stamps on the two photos (ADS-B and XM) are the same.

[KSMooniac]

In my brief experience with Garmin Pilot on Android + GDL 39 while also running XM on a 496 over my east coast trip last week, I think ADS-B is updating much more reliably, if not just quicker.  Several times XM would stop updating altogether (usually when flying into weather!) while ADS-B kept on going.  XM has done this to me ever since I got it 6 years ago...

 

I'm still debating whether or not I'm ready to ditch XM and go 100% ADS-B.  XM offers better resolution and more products, which I find useful.  I wish the price were a lot lower... but it is painful enough for my amount of flying that I'm leaning towards ditching it soon.

[carusoam]

If you only fly on weekends, it is hard (at least mentally) to keep paying Garmin prices and monthly XM bills...

If its a daily use tool, its the cost of doing business....

-a-

[KSMooniac]

I agree completely... XM became a VERY valuable security blanket for me soon after I purchased my J and began doing some "real" or "serious" XC (that is what a Mooney is for, right?) and XM gave me the reassurance to tackle a 500+ NM leg or multi-leg trip across the country.  Prior to that, I didn't have a lot of time in-cloud on real trips like I was now making.  Fast forward almost 800 hours and my experience bank is a lot higher, and perhaps ADS-B weather is good enough to make me feel OK tackling long trips with weather.

 

I'm flying less that last 2 years for a variety of reasons, so the XM cost per trip has gone way up... and that is pushing me towards ditching it.  (as well as the little fact that we finally got ADS-B coverage in my part of the country just this month.)

[Piloto]

Another option to keep your XM susbcription is to ditch your DirecTV or cable subscription and install a TV antenna instead. I did this about two years ago and I am very happy with it. I get about 50 channels all in HD for free. All the networks and four PBS stations. With the money saved from TV ($70/month) I subscribed to the XM Aviator LT package $35/month. Many in my neighborhood and family have switched to the TV antenna like in the old days. Unlike the old days were the picture quality was not as good with the antenna with the new HD format the picture is as good or better than DirecTV. No need for converter boxes and it works during rain. My son gave me for fathers day an Apple TV gadget ($100) that connects your TV to the internet via your home WI-FI. With it you can watch selected (Netflix and others) movies in HD at your own time for $4. No monthly fees. You can also watch TV websites such as youtube and other news websites for free. I am really impress how well it works. In fact there is more variety on Internet TV than on DirecTV or cable, and is free.

 

I tried a friend GDL 39 with my G560 but only got weather and TFR above 1,500. To my surprise my destination airport was under a TFR area so I turned back and went next day. With XM I get TFRs and weather in the hangar before engine start. At Andros in the Bahamas I was luky to have XM and spot another TFR covering Tamiami TMB before engine start. I could use my smartphone but not for internet connection.

 

José 

[KSMooniac]

Good points about modern TV options, José.  I had an OTA antenna at my old house (connected to Dish DVR & TV directly) but haven't put one up at my new house (as of 2 years ago already!).  I reluctantly admit I enjoy TV too much to give up a comprehensive package, despite all the alternatives.  We have netflix too (streaming and DVD), which is great, but the kicker for me is college football.  Too much of it is on "cable" and that is my major vice for the fall months.  There are quite a few shows on AMC and FX that I enjoy as well.

[Piloto]

Good points about modern TV options, José.  I had an OTA antenna at my old house (connected to Dish DVR & TV directly) but haven't put one up at my new house (as of 2 years ago already!).  I reluctantly admit I enjoy TV too much to give up a comprehensive package, despite all the alternatives.  We have netflix too (streaming and DVD), which is great, but the kicker for me is college football.  Too much of it is on "cable" and that is my major vice for the fall months.  There are quite a few shows on AMC and FX that I enjoy as well.

On the AppleTV gadget you can tune ESPN that shows a large number of college games. These days the only game I play is Bingo but they don't have it on ESPN, wonder why. Last time I got a third prize of 12 boxes of Preparation H suppositories. They are good for long flights. I now have enough for going around the world.

 

José  

[jetdriven]

Our GDL-39 receives weather on the ground at my home base (KLVJ)  and above 500 feet anywhere in central or east texas. Usually 4-6 stations at once.  For all the haters out there, it doesnt have satellite,  cloud tops or that worthless 30-minute old cloud-to-ground lightning, but it saves me enough to fly my M20J from houston to Boca for Christmas for free. After 200 hours flying behind it without a single data dropout I'll take it.  Keep feeding the beast, I have tuned out, turned off, and dropped out.

[scottfromiowa]

There was a time when I would have checked "Like This"...

[wishboneash]

In my brief experience with Garmin Pilot on Android + GDL 39 while also running XM on a 496 over my east coast trip last week, I think ADS-B is updating much more reliably, if not just quicker.  Several times XM would stop updating altogether (usually when flying into weather!) while ADS-B kept on going.  XM has done this to me ever since I got it 6 years ago...

 

I'm still debating whether or not I'm ready to ditch XM and go 100% ADS-B.  XM offers better resolution and more products, which I find useful.  I wish the price were a lot lower... but it is painful enough for my amount of flying that I'm leaning towards ditching it soon.

 

Could you comment on Garmin Pilot (GP) on Android compared to iOS if you know? Is the Android version as up to date in terms of features as the iOS version?  I am thinking of using GP on a Nexus 7 (which has a smaller screen compared to an iPad 2 and will go on the yoke nicely). Also the Nexus 7 has a built-in GPS which will be a back up if needed. I have the Garmin 696 for weather but will use the Nexus 7 for the charts and traffic. Thanks!

[Marauder]

In my brief experience with Garmin Pilot on Android + GDL 39 while also running XM on a 496 over my east coast trip last week, I think ADS-B is updating much more reliably, if not just quicker. Several times XM would stop updating altogether (usually when flying into weather!) while ADS-B kept on going. XM has done this to me ever since I got it 6 years ago...

I'm still debating whether or not I'm ready to ditch XM and go 100% ADS-B. XM offers better resolution and more products, which I find useful. I wish the price were a lot lower... but it is painful enough for my amount of flying that I'm leaning towards ditching it soon.



Could you comment on Garmin Pilot (GP) on Android compared to iOS if you know? Is the Android version as up to date in terms of features as the iOS version? I am thinking of using GP on a Nexus 7 (which has a smaller screen compared to an iPad 2 and will go on the yoke nicely). Also the Nexus 7 has a built-in GPS which will be a back up if needed. I have the Garmin 696 for weather but will use the Nexus 7 for the charts and traffic. Thanks!

I have Garmin Pilot but no GDL-39 on both an iPad 2 and a 1st generation Nexus 7 (2012 version). The Pilot version on the iPad iOS is much more refined and has more features than the Android version. I learned that Garmin has two separate development teams working on the platforms. The Android version is always playing catchup with the iOS version.

Some of the features on the iOS but not on the Nexus 7 are these:

 

 

 

[Bennett]

XM vs ADS-B (in/out).  I like XM's presentation of weather as opposed to ADS-B (NextGen). Less blotchy, or you could call it better resolution.  I very much like XM's Winds Aloft page - far more (model) data than NextGen. At any given chosen altitude, the XM screen shows far more (variable direction) wind barbs, and I think it is therefore more useful in optimizing courses or altitudes to either take advantage of tail winds, or minimize the effects of head winds by flying lower or higher, and shifting course to some degree. 

 

Finally I like the Sirius music option for longer flights. Yes, I know you can use iPhones/iPads for that, but I like to hunt around the variety of channels for different sorts of music than I would buy as a download.  Like they say, different strokes for different folks.

 

So, for now, at least, I will keep up my XM subscription.  

[Marauder]

XM vs ADS-B (in/out).  I like XM's presentation of weather as opposed to ADS-B (NextGen). Less blotchy, or you could call it better resolution.  I very much like XM's Winds Aloft page - far more (model) data than NextGen. At any given chosen altitude, the XM screen shows far more (variable direction) wind barbs, and I think it is therefore more useful in optimizing courses or altitudes to either take advantage of tail winds, or minimize the effects of head winds by flying lower or higher, and shifting course to some degree. 

 

Finally I like the Sirius music option for longer flights. Yes, I know you can use iPhones/iPads for that, but I like to hunt around the variety of channels for different sorts of music than I would buy as a download.  Like they say, different strokes for different folks.

 

So, for now, at least, I will keep up my XM subscription.  

 

Hi Bennett. I read somewhere that ADS-B In weather data is supposed to be more blocky if it is outside of the area that you are flying. Something to do with the amount of data transmitted. Do you see a difference in the way the weather is presented within 50 miles of your location and something say, 200 miles out? I thought if you moved to the "blocky" data area, the resolution improved and it became less blocky. Are you seeing this?

 

Wish I could find that article or video I saw on this.

[wishboneash]

XM vs ADS-B (in/out).  I like XM's presentation of weather as opposed to ADS-B (NextGen). Less blotchy, or you could call it better resolution.  I very much like XM's Winds Aloft page - far more (model) data than NextGen. At any given chosen altitude, the XM screen shows far more (variable direction) wind barbs, and I think it is therefore more useful in optimizing courses or altitudes to either take advantage of tail winds, or minimize the effects of head winds by flying lower or higher, and shifting course to some degree. 

 

Finally I like the Sirius music option for longer flights. Yes, I know you can use iPhones/iPads for that, but I like to hunt around the variety of channels for different sorts of music than I would buy as a download.  Like they say, different strokes for different folks.

 

So, for now, at least, I will keep up my XM subscription.  

 

I agree with the wind barbs. Just too few and far between on ADS-B. Can't say about the NEXRAD etc, haven't had the opportunity yet to see much of that around where I fly.

 

I can probably turn on the XM music only subscription (costs $25 for 6 months, cancel, re-subscribe ad-infinitum) on the 696 for the music/news.

[wishboneash]

I have Garmin Pilot but no GDL-39 on both an iPad 2 and a 1st generation Nexus 7 (2012 version). The Pilot version on the iPad iOS is much more refined and has more features than the Android version. I learned that Garmin has two separate development teams working on the platforms. The Android version is always playing catchup with the iOS version.

Some of the features on the iOS but not on the Nexus 7 are these:

 

Garmin Pilot 1.JPG

 

Garmin Pilot 2.JPG

 

Garmin Pilot 3.JPG

 

Thanks for the information. I will probably re-subscribe to GP on iPad and move to Android version when they finally catch up with all the iOS features. 

[Bennett]

We get very little Eastern type "weather" here in coastal California (Bay Area, Los Angeles, San Diego). We do get a great deal of coastal fog this time of year, and satellite imagery is best for that, along with METARS. For planing purposes, Foreflight Sectionals with a "Flight Rules" overlay is a valuable tool. Where I have seen weather is in the Sierra Nevada mountains, and from the coast or Central Valley,  XM seems to consistently show better resolution. Probably someone in the Middle, or Southern states, could address this for you. 

[Piloto]

One convenient advantage of XM over ADS-B WX is preflight check. Before any flight start you want to verify your systems works. With GPS, XM, engine, radios and others you can verify their functioning on the ground but you cannot verify ADS-B WX until you get airborne and within range of a UAT ground terminal. This may seem trivial but would you get airborne at night if your GPS does not work on the ground?

 

José

[Marauder]

Thanks for the information. I will probably re-subscribe to GP on iPad and move to Android version when they finally catch up with all the iOS features. 

 

The good news is that the Nexus 7 tablets are reasonably priced. I think I picked up a 16Gb version for $199 and yoke mounted it. I think it has a better display for direct sunlight reading than the iPad and I hear the new Nexus 7 has an even brighter HD display. I carry the iPad as backup.

 

Another feature I noted on the iOS version last night was that now you can print approach plates from the app. ForeFlight had this feature and now the Garmin Pilot can do it. What is really cool is that you can annotate a chart with colors and it will print it out that way. It also prints in a size format that you can put it on a kneeboard. Being able to print the plates for my destination and alternate make for a great backup.

[tomn]

I have been using XM for several years on my 696 and have been very happy with it. I use the XM for long range planning and the WX-10 for closer realtime information/convective weather avoidance. I have not noticed the update interval on the XM being long - about 8 minutes is the oldest I can recall seeing.

Here is a video of my flight yesterday traveling west of Chicago. There was heavy weather in the area with lots of convection. I XM picked this all up early and I was able to reroute long in advance to have me clear of it all. The stormscope did pick all this up but it works much better being able to zoom out and look at the weather along the route. I used the winds aloft to determine if I'd need to stop for fuel since I had been fighting a headwind up to that point. The winds aloft indicated I'd pick up some speed once I turned after diverting around this - which I did. It all worked out well but also allowed me to have a solid plan in case things did not go as expected.

Tom

trim.267ePm.MOV

[tomn]

OK, that did not work - video won't play. Anyone know how to do this?

[Piloto]

OK, that did not work - video won't play. Anyone know how to do this?

I saw the video but it was 90deg offset. You have to click on the browser message at lower left corner  I also rely on the XM for weather, specially when flying underneath it at low altitude where there is no ADS-B WX coverage. A friend of mine that has ForeFlight told me that at low altitude he has to switch to his smartphone when he loses the signal.