need Avionics advice

[davidsguerra]

This is my panel minus the kx 165. I have a 530 W and a GMX 200 with chartview.

 

I am planning to get a GMA 350 audio panel , GTX 330ES xponder and an aspen 1000 PFD.

 

I would like the GTN 750 /650 combo with a gdl 88 for the panel mounted ADS B traffic and wx. .

 

should I get a gns 480 instead of the 750 and keep the GMX 200? i could use a freeflight system ads B receiver for wx and traffic instead of the GDL 88.  is Surf and Targettrend even helpful , especially since i could probably get TAS for the price of the GTN upgrade?  i will lose money trading in my GMX 200 and  530w unless someone wants to buy them. 

 

which one would be easier to use for  IFR?

is there a difference between a GNS 480 and a cnx 80? the GNS 480 might save me 10 -12 k because I already have a good MFD with Jepp Chartview.

 

if the GDL 88 was supported on the GMX 200 or it was even planned I wouldnt be interested in an upgrade except for the minor inconvenience of having to use a card adapter with my 530w to update the charts.

 

 

please help me spend my money wisely. thanks

[Cruiser]

If you are getting an Aspen, I would look at the Avidyne units since they seem to play nice with Aspen. I would think there will be all kinds of interactive features in the future. Garmin has make it very clear they don't want to interface with anyone.

Aspen has just announced an ADS-B solution using their MFD.

 

I would dump the GMX200 while it still has some resale value. Add the Aspen MFD with ADS-B and order the Avidyne GPS.

[Marauder]

You have a pretty decent panel as is. I agree upgrading the transponder and MX would be next logical steps. You could also get good money for what you have and do a GTN or Avidyne upgrade with the Aspen. Do you have GPSS? You are at that stage where you need to "choose wisely". You could spend serious money and not get much more than you have now. Here is my setup (as of today): But who knows what tomorrow will bring?

[Awful_Charlie]

I'll be pulling my 480 soon - not that it's bad, I love it, and much prefer it over the 430 I have as #2, just that EArSA has mandated that I have to have two 8.33 radios from January next year.  The Aspen plays well with the 480 and adds roll steer, but over here the ADSB and Wx products are way behind, so can't offer much in the way of an opinion on those, other than the GTX330 needs the ES option to do ADSB out - add another 1.2AMUs

[davidsguerra]

my goal is to add dual WAAS gps nav com and keep the king DG for redundancy. adding the aspen would add quadruple redundancy.  I sold the kx 165 bc someone offered me good money for it and i knew that i would eventually add a  GPS nav com. i have heard that the GTN series lacks some of the features  that the gns 480 offers. since it plays well with gmx 200 i was considering it instead  although it would limit my upgrade pathway in the future and i would be using the cf cards instead of the sd cards. i am interested in the avidyne series bu they arent out yet.

[John Pleisse]

Keep in mind, the Aspen and GMX 200 are perfect, because you can plug anything into them, literally. I think as ADS-B becomes a cheaper reality (and it is), we need to get away from the Garmin all-in-one GPS boxes and start thinking more about ADS-B boxes installed remotely in the tail cone and being plugged into displays. I submit to you, your GMX 200 , your ES transponder and the Aspen would work better with a WAAS ADS-B in/out box, than lopping off $17k for a Garmin GTN 750. You would even have money left over for a TCAD. Seriously.

 

Consider the ATX200G from Aspen (under $5k). I know you are flying a Rocket and these boxes are only certified to 17,999 msl, but look at the capability, price and it would run on both your GMX 200 and Aspen PFD displays. Heck, buy two. I think a smarter buy than a single GTN 750 costing three times the money.

 

Why do I like the GMX200 so much? I have used them and as an Aspen series 2000 owner, I would give up my second screen to have a bigger, center stack display instead.

 

Flawed process? I think not. Look at jets, new Cirrus advanced flight decks and even the G1000. It's all display driven. You only have a 2 acre lot upfront. :)

 

http://www.flyingmag.com/avionics-gear/instrumentaccessories/aspen-unveils-ads-b-solutions

[davidsguerra]

will the Aspen ADS B box display on the GMX 200? i could get the receiver only and stick with the garmin xponder. the Freeflight systems can  have more than one output as well.  having a dual reciever only is a step in the right direction.  if only someone would make a dual receiver in a TAS system i would buy it . especially if it came with a 1090  es out.

[PTK]

 please help me spend my money wisely. thanks

If you want to spend your $$$'s wisely stick with Garmin, the undisputed leader in the GA arena.  

Not Aspen and not Avidyne. If you swim with them you may sink with them. Real money and real dangers.

 

my goal is to add dual WAAS gps nav com...

Garmin GTN is built for the future.

[John Pleisse]

So let's say Smiles is right. Spend $27k on the G500 and not $17k on the GTN. This would be built for the future. Oh wait, whoops, Garmin is predatory and only allows their certified WAAS boxes to run on their displays. Aspen, complete flexibility, even with your old ADF. The GTN series (a lot of great bells an whistles) is compatible with the future, not built for it.

 

Check with Aspen re: GMX. Call John in customer service or a dealer.

 

Stay display driven and avoid the phone-fax-copier-scanner mentality (and a wobbling index finger in turbulence :) )

[Marauder]

So let's say Smiles is right. Spend $27k on the G500 and not $17k on the GTN. This would be built for the future. Oh wait, whoops, Garmin is predatory and only allows their certified WAAS boxes to run on their displays. Aspen, complete flexibility, even with your old ADF. The GTN series (a lot of great bells an whistles) is compatible with the future, not built for it. Check with Aspen re: GMX. Call John in customer service or a dealer. Stay display driven and avoid the phone-fax-copier-scanner mentality (and a wobbling index finger in turbulence :) )

Although I agree with Allsmiles on many things, this is one area I don't. Garmin is the market leader and is acting liking a bully in the process. They are where BK was in the late 70s and 80s' - owned the market and charged for it. I was so irritated with BK back in the early 90s on how much they were gouging me to evaluate a KX-170B problem (not even repairing it), I took a chance on a Narco to replace it. I paid half of what BK wanted for a 155 and even though Narco is gone, the 12D+ soldiers on. If it died tomorrow, I feel I got my money's worth out of it. I am absolutely impressed with the versatility that Aspen has provided. Their open hierarchy made it possible for me to interface old with new and provided me a timeline that allowed me to upgrade future hardware on my timeline, terms and at a price point I could afford. If Aspen offered a WAAS GPS, I would have taken a chance on them.

[PTK]

Spend $27k on the G500 and not $17k on the GTN. 

You should read the original post man! The gentleman wanted to add dual WAAS gps nav comm. That's why I referred to the GTN. I wasn't even referring to the G500. But since you brought it up the least you could do is get some accurate figures! Stop...

 

 

[PTK]

If Aspen offered a WAAS GPS, I would have taken a chance on them.

We can agree to disagree Marauder! I do agree with you, there are a lot of "ifs" with Aspen and Avidyne for that matter! Aspen can call Garmin a "predator" and a "bully" but G plays the tune others dance to! There are legitimate reasons, they'll tell you if you ask them. My advice to Aspen would be stop bitching and start engineering...if you can.

[Piloto]

David

 

I think you have a pretty well equipped plane. But I did not see an engine analyzer. If you are going to spend some money on it do it on something that will give you an added safety benefit. An engine analyzer will help you on saving on fuel and will alert you on an impending engine condition before it gets catastrophic.

 

José 

[davidsguerra]

Jose I have a jpi 830.

[John Pleisse]

I spent only $2k less on an Aspen 2000 system than I would have on a Garmin G500, intentionally. Aspen has built a better mouse trap and unless Garmin can buy Aspen, Garmin is in for a rough ride. They are ranked low in running, golf, boating and outdoor GPS's, they do well in cars and are now challenged in aviation. Think about it, Aspen is the only company to consistently clean Garmin's clock on innovative products, one after another for a 5 year stretch. Aspen doesn't need to develop an all in one panel mount GPS, Marauder, because this is not how avionics will work in the future. The GTN series will prove to be Garmin's last panel mount, all-in-one GPS product. It is an incremental evolution of their older GPS's, not the future. Nice displays, remote keypads and moderately priced receivers and transmitters remotely mounted are the future. And they are about to become so reasonably priced, one may look back on a GTN purchase as a learning experience, Smiles.

[PTK]

Think about it, Aspen is the only company to consistently clean Garmin's clock on innovative products, one after another for a 5 year stretch. 

Care to list them?

[John Pleisse]

http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/general-aviation/

[Marauder]

Think about it, Aspen is the only company to consistently clean Garmin's clock on innovative products, one after another for a 5 year stretch. Care to list them?

I'll take the bait. Aspen was the first to introduce full interfacing with existing aviation equipment by providing the ACU & ACU-2 options as part of their standard glass offering. Garmin responded with the GAD-43e product (oh, and it will cost you another $5k installed).

[PTK]

Those aren't  "...innovative products, one after another for a 5 year stretch." Sorry! 

Care to try again?  

[mooniac58]

As stated if you put in a Aspen PFD I would not look at Garmin GPS units.  Garmin has an "Apple Inc" like philosophy of not playing with others.  Features you may want to add later like Connected Panel (sending your flight plan to your deck or tuning radios from your mobile device via wifi) will not work with GTN 650/750 units as Garmin has all data heavily encrypted and refuses to use any kind of standard open communications.  Whereas if you wait for an Avidyne or Bendix/Aspen GPS you will be able to use all the planned features.

 

Just be advised of the issues with trying to mix Garmin with other brands if you ever need cross-talk features down the road (which is the future of cockpit avionics really).

[mooniac58]

Those aren't  "...innovative products, one after another for a 5 year stretch." Sorry! 

Care to try again?  

 

I would say that they have brought a lot of innovation.  The reason I selected Aspen Evo 2500 over Garmin G500 was based on the innovative and added safety features:

 

- Your PFD/MFD are totally independent of one another.  For this reason your MFD1000 can serve as a full backup for your airspeed indicator and altimeter.  That gets two backup gauges off your panel and only requires you to have a backup AI (personally I went all electric at this point and removed my vacuum system entirely).  The really nice thing here is if your PFD fails and you go to your backups - you push the REV button your MFD and you are now on your backups - another Aspen tube that is exactly the same as your primary...you are not trying to fly on 3 steam gauges placed in some odd place in your panel.

- Battery backup on all units - I don't know of any other panel avionics products that do this

- Build in GPS backup in al ADHARS units for PFD/MFD.  So if your panel GPS bites the dust, the GPS chip in your PFD/MFD 1000 will take over allowing you to finish your flight.  I also am not aware of any other EFIS manufacturer doing this in the GA market

- Connected Panel: a wifi hotspot in your aircraft that allows your mobile devices such as iPad, phone, etc to connect to your panel to send/receive flight plan data, tune radios, view engine parameters, etc.  Really, this was not innovative enough?

- Easy install of sophisticated EFIS units into your existing 6-pack panel holes.  This was a very innovative idea that really put these units on the map.  The fact that a person could just pull out their existing instruments and plug these in with minimal labor was pretty ground breaking.  For the budget minded person wanting glass cockpit features this makes Aspen the only real choice available.

 

That being said I don't have a lot of faith in their new GPS unit with Bendix (KSN770).  I am likely looking at the Avidyne units to replace my old GNS430W

[Marauder]

Those aren't "...innovative products, one after another for a 5 year stretch." Sorry! Care to try again? I would say that they have brought a lot of innovation. The reason I selected Aspen Evo 2500 over Garmin G500 was based on the innovative and added safety features: - Your PFD/MFD are totally independent of one another. For this reason your MFD1000 can serve as a full backup for your airspeed indicator and altimeter. That gets two backup gauges off your panel and only requires you to have a backup AI (personally I went all electric at this point and removed my vacuum system entirely). The really nice thing here is if your PFD fails and you go to your backups - you push the REV button your MFD and you are now on your backups - another Aspen tube that is exactly the same as your primary...you are not trying to fly on 3 steam gauges placed in some odd place in your panel. - Battery backup on all units - I don't know of any other panel avionics products that do this - Build in GPS backup in al ADHARS units for PFD/MFD. So if your panel GPS bites the dust, the GPS chip in your PFD/MFD 1000 will take over allowing you to finish your flight. I also am not aware of any other EFIS manufacturer doing this in the GA market - Connected Panel: a wifi hotspot in your aircraft that allows your mobile devices such as iPad, phone, etc to connect to your panel to send/receive flight plan data, tune radios, view engine parameters, etc. Really, this was not innovative enough? - Easy install of sophisticated EFIS units into your existing 6-pack panel holes. This was a very innovative idea that really put these units on the map. The fact that a person could just pull out their existing instruments and plug these in with minimal labor was pretty ground breaking. For the budget minded person wanting glass cockpit features this makes Aspen the only real choice available. That being said I don't have a lot of faith in their new GPS unit with Bendix (KSN770). I am likely looking at the Avidyne units to replace my old GNS430W

Let me pile on; another innovation, their PFD/MFD reversion also is now able to take over full autopilot control. In the past, during reversion, you lost AP control. Now you can throw a switch and have full GPSS and Nav control sent over to the AP from the MFD. a picture of the switch: With their new ADSB solution, you can purchase the CG50 interface and now do a WiFi connection from your portable ADSB receiver and display weather on your panel mounted Aspen products. http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/nextgen/cg50

[PTK]

I'm impressed! So what's their complaint about G? Sounds like Aspen has it all! They don't need Garmin! 

[John Pleisse]

My 2000 system seamlessly converts to a separate and redundant ADHRS back-up. A one hour battery is installed to facilitate this. The connected panel offers multiple ADS-B options as well as inputs from a multitude of partners, especially all of the I phone and I pad Apps (which are game changers). Here's the big difference. Installation. A Garmin G500 weights almost twice as much and requires plumbing from the outboard wing and pitot tube, through the fuselage to the near 10lbs (!!!) ADHRS unit in the tailcone. Aspen? All plumbing to existing p/s lines behind your panel. Data partners, limitless. And never mind Aspen's multiple Wx, ADS-B and other dedicated boxes for inline install. Garmin will catch up, but at a cost premium.

 

Again, all Garmin can do is buy Aspen and they won't sell.

[John Pleisse]

Here's the draw back to both. Learning curve. You need to learn to interpret data differently. Likewise, I miss my VSI, the Aspen and Garmin VSI's are insufficient. Emergency procedures. Understanding the boxes and what happens when they go wrong is a completely time consuming and required task.

 

David, didn't mean to highjack your thread over an Aspen/Garmin beat-down.