On 2300rpm and SB09-11 on Continentals

[aviatoreb]

Hi folks, So who is aware of CSB09-11 for continental engines, 

 

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/CSB09-11.pdf

 

In brief, it says there is a great risk of sudden engine stoppage at some point if you make running your big bore continental at settings below 2300 your sop.  I thought you folks might like to be aware in case you are not already aware.  This covers not just the rocket TSIO520NB that I fly, but I believe it also covers ovations, acclaims, and eagles since don't those models have a continental 550?

 

I have been aware of this SB only for the last 6 months or so, and since then I have not been running at 2200rpm even though it is on my POH as the recommended settings for 55% and 65%: http://www.rocketengineering.com/sites/all/docs/305Rocket.pdf

 

So when I want to run at power 65% and below I have been setting 2300rpm, and downward adjusting MP accordingly.

 

 

[Cruiser]

did you call customer service per the bulletin?

[aviatoreb]

did you call customer service per the bulletin?

 

Ummm...no.  Good point.

[Alan Fox]

I think a lot of the mooneys come with a variant of the 550N which has the two small valve covers , not the one big one .....Its wierd 

I have a an IO 520 BA and it is not in the bulletin...

[carusoam]

I had the IO550(G) with the two small covers as described by Alan.

It operates at 2,500 RPM continuously from sun up to sun down T/O to Landing. I don't recall a lower RPM limit.

The IO 550(N) allows for 2700 RPM, I still haven't seen that lower limit pointed out, but now I'll be looking for it.

Sounds like a yellow line should be considered for the tach?

The SB is a few years old and did not have much description other than a few "high time" engines and associated counterbalances operating below 2,300 RPM.

Splash lubrication being different at lower RPMs? Lower oil pressure? What would be the possible cause?

Best regards,

-a-

[AndyFromCB]

Long time ago i have come to a conclusion that 2 drunken monkeys could design a piston aircraft engine better than continental and lycoming put together. I would fly any day behind something Honda or Nissan pulled off. Don't get me started on them engines never producing their full rated power. My S2000 never saw less than 8000RPM when I drove that car for 20,000 miles. My GT-R never saw less than full rated power for 30,000 miles. I've done the Council Bluffs to Des Moines run on I80 quicker than my Bravo could pull it off, I've seen 190mph on that stretch of road at 5am before. Good news is you run out of the tank before you run out of the tires. The turbo chargers on that car are like swiss clock jewelry, would make anybody flying with a AIResearch turbo question their sanity. They are a work of art. 600hp all day long on 91 octane gas from 3.8 litters. Take a close look at the way c/l crankshafts and camshafts are machined, it makes me want to cry in 2013.

[Alan Fox]

I know there are a lot of issues that have to do with swinging a prop , You would think if the prop was dynamically balanced , it would be Ok , but than why do non counterbalanced lycomings break prop tips off???  I never understood the nuances of harnonics as it deals with swinging a prop , aparently its not as simple as it sounds....

[aviatoreb]

Long time ago i have come to a conclusion that 2 drunken monkeys could design a piston aircraft engine better than continental and lycoming put together. I would fly any day behind something Honda or Nissan pulled off. Don't get me started on them engines never producing their full rated power. My S2000 never saw less than 8000RPM when I drove that car for 20,000 miles. My GT-R never saw less than full rated power for 30,000 miles. I've done the Council Bluffs to Des Moines run on I80 quicker than my Bravo could pull it off, I've seen 190mph on that stretch of road at 5am before. Good news is you run out of the tank before you run out of the tires. The turbo chargers on that car are like swiss clock jewelry, would make anybody flying with a AIResearch turbo question their sanity. They are a work of art. 600hp all day long on 91 octane gas from 3.8 litters. Take a close look at the way c/l crankshafts and camshafts are machined, it makes me want to cry in 2013.

 

Well - I wasn't meaning to start complaining about the ancient nature of our stone-age aircraft engines compared to my beautiful car engine - but rather just to point out this SB and how it might impact our best operations of our engines.  So I have been running 2300 as lowest rather than 2200 that is allowed in my POH written before the SB.

 

...okay, modern engines.  I have a subaru wrx sti - and I love love that engine.  It just goes and goes, and puuuuurs.  Fadec, turbo, blah blah.... 300hp on 4 cylinders compared to my 305hp rocket engine.    I wish I could put a subaru engine on the nose of an airplane - yes I know about eggenfeller's vans subaru engine installs but I have read about the ugly cooling issues his homemade installs have had.

 

So astelmaszek, if you have seen 190mph on your car (at 5am) - what was the altitude?  Now if you could only find a FL17 long straight flat road to drive, I bet you could go even faster.  There are some pretty high deserts and high roads in the Andes.  In fact there was a pretty funny top gear episode where the guys were trying to drive over a 17k pass w/o o2 and the cars couldn't make it (no turbo) and the poor drivers were suffering - esp jeremy clarkson who seems to be a good time good cigar smokin' englishman.

 

[aviatoreb]

I know there are a lot of issues that have to do with swinging a prop , You would think if the prop was dynamically balanced , it would be Ok , but than why do non counterbalanced lycomings break prop tips off???  I never understood the nuances of harnonics as it deals with swinging a prop , aparently its not as simple as it sounds....

 

I bet you are right - I bet there are some complex harmonics to worry about with the prop.

 

Everybody go balance your props!  I did it last year and it changed my "perfectly smooth" engine and prop duo to even more perfect.  I couldn't believe how much it improved what felt like already perfect.

[Alan Fox]

I bet you are right - I bet there are some complex harmonics to worry about with the prop.

 

Everybody go balance your props!  I did it last year and it changed my "perfectly smooth" engine and prop duo to even more perfect.  I couldn't believe how much it improved what felt like already perfect.

Thats the dynamic balance , and I know that it will feel smoother , But the harmonics are what play into counterbalancing and what not..... I am not an engineer , can one of our engineering types explain it to us in simple terms???

[carusoam]

My LT1 powered '95 firebird beat your (or one like yours) WRX in the1/4 mile...

The turbo came out accelerating fast, but the V8 kept accerating to 97 mph at the line...

Ok this has nothing to do with car engines in planes but there are no succeful car engines in planes.

My favorite car engine that has failed in a plane is the LS1 small block Chevy that had a catastrophic failure with its gearbox?

It doesn't matter if I have the details incorrect, if Porsche couldn't pull it off in a Mooney M20L, we'll be waiting for the first successful manufacturer for a while.

High power, high altitude, low final RPM, and light weight engines are hard to come by in the automotive world.

Running 4,000+ rpm for 2,000 hrs sounds like a tremendous challenge.

----

There are a few IO550 engines in everything from Mooney, to Cirrus, and Cessna, N/A and TC. There biggest failure in Mooneys have been leaky oil coolers(a few). The biggest service difficulty in Cirrus has been dual alternators(several). Continental is probably the manufacturer of all, the engine, cooler and alternator. How hard is it to build an oil cooler???

-----

I like the counterbalanced Continental. 310 HP, 200hp @65%

Q: how much torque? A: Gobs... From SL through the FLs especially if you have a pair of TCs.... Go Acclaim!

Best regards,

-a-

[Alan Fox]

My LT1 powered '95 firebird beat your (or one like yours) WRX in the1/4 mile...

The turbo came out accelerating fast, but the V8 kept accerating to 97 mph at the line...

Ok this has nothing to do with car engines in planes but there are no succeful car engines in planes.

My favorite car engine that has failed in a plane is the LS1 small block Chevy that had a catastrophic failure with its gearbox?

It doesn't matter if I have the details incorrect, if Porsche couldn't pull it off in a Mooney M20L, we'll be waiting for the first successful manufacturer for a while.

High power, high altitude, low final RPM, and light weight engines are hard to come by in the automotive world.

Running 4,000+ rpm for 2,000 hrs sounds like a tremendous challenge.

There are a few of these engine in everything from Mooney, to Cirrus, and Cessna, N/A and TC. There biggest failure in Mooneys have been leaky oil coolers(a few). The biggest service difficulty in Cirrus has been dual alternators(several).

I like the counterbalanced Continental. 310 HP, 200hp @65%

Q: how much torque? A: Gobs... From SL through the FLs especially if you have a pair of TCs.... Go Acclaim!

Best regards,

-a-

The thielert diesels are automotive engines.......Although the first three letters in the word diesel...........are really scary...........Kind of like the cessna engine....0-320 H2AD.......

[carusoam]

Unfortunately, Thielert went out of business converting MB engines. Business failure more than anything else... The automotive world moved on with out them like the Porsche had done years before.

Diesel is a nice idea...

- from the energy/mass of the fuel and

- life expectancy of the engine

- high compression ratios available on real TC engines from Audi. Try a cult classic using uber turbos from Audi for fun...not for mileage....

- turbine engines make diesel an even better idea, but not perfect either. Aka Mooney's last engine development effort...

-a-

AD makes for a funny engine name and tail number...sorry to offend, but I would skip on that one for no apparent reason.... At least you can select a new tail number.

[aviatoreb]

My LT1 powered '95 firebird beat your (or one like yours) WRX in the1/4 mile...

The turbo came out accelerating fast, but the V8 kept accerating to 97 mph at the line...

 

 

Ah - maybe on a nice dry track - but not on a snowy day - not on an icy road like we are prone to have white/ice colored roads up here roughly 4 months of the year.  Call my all wheel drive - AWD on my WRX translates to "TKS" for cars.

[carusoam]

Very nice, EB!

I still like the big block over the high tech...

Untill I go with O2... Then the pressurized big block starts looking really good.........

-a-

[AndyFromCB]

Well - I wasn't meaning to start complaining about the ancient nature of our stone-age aircraft engines compared to my beautiful car engine - but rather just to point out this SB and how it might impact our best operations of our engines.  So I have been running 2300 as lowest rather than 2200 that is allowed in my POH written before the SB.

 

...okay, modern engines.  I have a subaru wrx sti - and I love love that engine.  It just goes and goes, and puuuuurs.  Fadec, turbo, blah blah.... 300hp on 4 cylinders compared to my 305hp rocket engine.    I wish I could put a subaru engine on the nose of an airplane - yes I know about eggenfeller's vans subaru engine installs but I have read about the ugly cooling issues his homemade installs have had.

 

So astelmaszek, if you have seen 190mph on your car (at 5am) - what was the altitude?  Now if you could only find a FL17 long straight flat road to drive, I bet you could go even faster.  There are some pretty high deserts and high roads in the Andes.  In fact there was a pretty funny top gear episode where the guys were trying to drive over a 17k pass w/o o2 and the cars couldn't make it (no turbo) and the poor drivers were suffering - esp jeremy clarkson who seems to be a good time good cigar smokin' englishman.

 

 

I've seen 190mph in my GT-R on I80, granted, not for the entire run from Council Tucky to Des Moines, but for a few miles, there was not a soul on the road, the AGL was 0. Stable like a rock. Took my mechanic in it a few weeks ago for a spin down the taxiway, his jaw just dropped, he thought his Camaro was quick. Told him to keep his damn head against the headrest, he didn't listen, bet you it still hurts ;-)

 

It's the only car I've ever driven where the stability just continues to increase as you speed up. Plus it has 4 seats, plus a real trunk. Not as much fun to drive as the S2000 was at sane, legal speeds, though. You find yourself doing 120 on interstate entry without pressing the pedal too hard.

 

Funniest thing that ever happend to me driving was between Omaha and Fargo on I29. Those who have ever driven that stretch of road can attest to the fact that there is exactly two small bends in that entire section. It was me and my girlfriend, heading to her family vacation, in my Volvo C30. She was reading a book. I was driving 140mph. She never noticed. About half an hour into it, she looks over the speedometer and freaks out. Got to love little sleeper cars like Volvo. Told her to go back to reading her book. 75mph limit is such a shame on that road.

[AndyFromCB]

My LT1 powered '95 firebird beat your (or one like yours) WRX in the1/4 mile...

The turbo came out accelerating fast, but the V8 kept accerating to 97 mph at the line...

Ok this has nothing to do with car engines in planes but there are no succeful car engines in planes.

My favorite car engine that has failed in a plane is the LS1 small block Chevy that had a catastrophic failure with its gearbox?

It doesn't matter if I have the details incorrect, if Porsche couldn't pull it off in a Mooney M20L, we'll be waiting for the first successful manufacturer for a while.

High power, high altitude, low final RPM, and light weight engines are hard to come by in the automotive world.

Running 4,000+ rpm for 2,000 hrs sounds like a tremendous challenge.

----

There are a few IO550 engines in everything from Mooney, to Cirrus, and Cessna, N/A and TC. There biggest failure in Mooneys have been leaky oil coolers(a few). The biggest service difficulty in Cirrus has been dual alternators(several). Continental is probably the manufacturer of all, the engine, cooler and alternator. How hard is it to build an oil cooler???

-----

I like the counterbalanced Continental. 310 HP, 200hp @65%

Q: how much torque? A: Gobs... From SL through the FLs especially if you have a pair of TCs.... Go Acclaim!

Best regards,

-a-

 

My little GT-R, with a few upgrades here and there does 1/4 at 10.8 and 125mph.

[aviatoreb]

I've seen 190mph in my GT-R on I80, granted, not for the entire run from Council Tucky to Des Moines, but for a few miles, there was not a soul on the road, the AGL was 0. Stable like a rock. Took my mechanic in it a few weeks ago for a spin down the taxiway, his jaw just dropped, he thought his Camaro was quick. Told him to keep his damn head against the headrest, he didn't listen, bet you it still hurts ;-)

 

It's the only car I've ever driven where the stability just continues to increase as you speed up. Plus it has 4 seats, plus a real trunk. Not as much fun to drive as the S2000 was at sane, legal speeds, though. You find yourself doing 120 on interstate entry without pressing the pedal too hard.

 

Funniest thing that ever happend to me driving was between Omaha and Fargo on I29. Those who have ever driven that stretch of road can attest to the fact that there is exactly two small bends in that entire section. It was me and my girlfriend, heading to her family vacation, in my Volvo C30. She was reading a book. I was driving 140mph. She never noticed. About half an hour into it, she looks over the speedometer and freaks out. Got to love little sleeper cars like Volvo. Told her to go back to reading her book. 75mph limit is such a shame on that road.

 

Okay sir...fess up - what was your fastest recorded speeding ticket?

[AndyFromCB]

Okay sir...fess up - what was your fastest recorded speeding ticket?

 

96 in 45, many years ago, on a motorcycle, actually pulled over and waited for the cop. Long story short, because I did, he recommened to the judge I'd be allowed to take a traffic course, which he happend to teach. State Tropper Henderson, I still remember his last name to this day.

 

BTW, I noticed the GT-R has a snow mode on the dashboard, LOL.

 

No speeding tickets or any sort of a ticket last 11 or so years. Never been in a car accident, wreck a million motorcycles, though. Mostly quit ridding, looking at my Ducati in my office right now. Nice sculpcture.

[carusoam]

I took up flying to avoid speeding tickets...

I did enjoy driving in parts of Europe for a few years where my Garmin did the recording for me....

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

I once got ...96 in a 55.  Same thing!  But higher speed limit.  I was 17 years old, young and brash and on beech week trip in high school.  It was near ocean city, md, and I pulled along side a corvette full of boys and I was driving a toyota full of boys.  We egged each other on - near dusk - on the highway - and we dragged out.  I soon saw their lights behind me (silly me - a corvette beats toyota), and after a while I slowed down and noticed that those lights were the cops!  Ugh....  Didn't I feel special with all my friends watching me get a whopper ticket.

 

Good news was at the time I had crossed into deleware and deleware was not sharing points with maryland.  So my friends and I scrounged up the money to pay the ticket but I never told my parents since there were no points to report for the insurance.  Still haven't told them.  Please no one hear tell my parents.

 

Since then I drive like a little ol' lady - and that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

[AndyFromCB]

I once got ...96 in a 55.  Same thing!  But higher speed limit.  I was 17 years old, young and brash and on beech week trip in high school.  It was near ocean city, md, and I pulled along side a corvette full of boys and I was driving a toyota full of boys.  We egged each other on - near dusk - on the highway - and we dragged out.  I soon saw their lights behind me (silly me - a corvette beats toyota), and after a while I slowed down and noticed that those lights were the cops!  Ugh....  Didn't I feel special with all my friends watching me get a whopper ticket.

 

Good news was at the time I had crossed into deleware and deleware was not sharing points with maryland.  So my friends and I scrounged up the money to pay the ticket but I never told my parents since there were no points to report for the insurance.  Still haven't told them.  Please no one hear tell my parents.

 

Since then I drive like a little ol' lady - and that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

 

i drive like an old lady too, my daily driver is a Nissan Frontier and I keep it at the speed limit. But when the GT-R comes out, it's pure mayham. I don't get speeding tickets because I'm very picky where and when I choose to drive that car.

[aviatoreb]

i drive like an old lady too, my daily driver is a Nissan Frontier and I keep it at the speed limit. But when the GT-R comes out, it's pure mayham. I don't get speeding tickets because I'm very picky where and when I choose to drive that car.

 

Good for you

 

and Its true - I do drive like an old lady - okay I go 5mph over speed limit on open roads like the next guy, but I am a very respectful and modest driver.  That episode was from my teenage years and I have grown up a lot since then. Every now and then I accelerate like nuts.  Being a math professor - I like to say the following " the law limits the first derivative, but not the second derivative of the position function - you can legally accelerate as much as you wish."

 

I fly even more respectfully and by the book.

 

But wow - an aside - my oldest boy just turned 16 and my middle boy is turning 15 next month.  Knowing what I still remember about teenage boy drivers...  Pitty me!