Need some advice

[kujo806]

First of all, I want to say that I have been reading the forums here for a while now, and this seems to be a great group of Mooney enthusiasts with very helpful information.  Next I want apologize in advance for possibly rambling a bit in this post, but I am a new pilot and a bit overwhelmed right now.

I just recently got my PPL and have just over 100 hours total time primarily in a Warrior and Archer with a few hours in a 172.  It has been a goal and dream of mine to get a Mooney of my own someday (hence following the forums here), although I figured I would build some time and experience first by renting and look into ownership down the road. 

This week, my wife's uncle called me because he knows a guy who is up there in age and selling his beloved M20F that he has owned for 37 years.  After talking to the seller, it sounds like the airplane has been his pride and joy with many mods and a great maintenance history.  I have figured that when the time came, I would be interested in a M20F or J, so I found this occurance to be pretty interesting, unfortunately I don't know where to start.  Because I was not planning on seriously shopping for a plane yet, I am caught off guard and a bit overwhelmed.

I guess my first question is...am I stupid for even considering pursuing this plane at my level of experience?

Other than that, I don't know of any Mooney experts in my area that I could consult for checking out the aircraft or giving me advice on how to buy a Mooney.  I don't even know if I could get insurance on it.  I don't really know what my next step should be.  I plan to get my complex endorsement in the next few weeks on an Arrow (I was planning on that before this came up), but I don't know how to get any Mooney time or find a local Mooney authority.

I suppose my next step may be to go look at it in person, preferrably with someone that has Mooney knowledge.  It is not too far from me by air so travel isn't too much of a hassle.  Other than convincing my wife, the financials aren't too big of an obstacle.  Any suggestions on what to do next would be helpful and appreciated.

[rbridges]

I would say welcome to the forum, but it seems you've been around for a few years. lol.  anyway, I think you're ready for a mooney.  Your profile fits most mooney owners; 172/cherokee for the first 100 hours or so, then transition into complex/retract.

anyway, I'd get some info on the plane.  find out if it's equipped the way you like and if the price sounds good to you.  there are people on this board that would be more than happy to give their input.  If it looks like a plane you'd like to pursue, get a prebuy from a mooney service center.  there are a lot of potential expenses in any plane, and it would be nice to find them before the title is in your name.

as far as insurance, I got it with no complex time and just a little over 100 hours.  

[rob]

I agree with rbriges. I had about 150 hours when I got my Mooney. Almost all of that was in a Warrior. I did the complex checkout in my M20C, insurance was not unreasonable. 

I would say that you should be careful not to go faster than you want to with a purchase. There will always be another bird for sale, remember that. In addition to that, I'd be sure to get your own set of eyes and someone you trust to look at the plane. Sometimes, even with a lot of pride of ownership, when someone owns an aircraft that long, the same mechanic does all the work, and some items may go neglected for whatever reason. A fresh look is often a good thing. 

What to do next: Take a deep breath and relax. Check out the market and see what's out there. Perhaps talk to the folks at AAA. Don't get too wrapped up in any one airplane; make this a dispassionate purchase. 

Then step 1: Define your mission. How far, how fast, how often? What sort of avionics do you want, what else is important to you? Does a N/A Mooney fit? Is a C/E in play, or do you need the midbody? It's much easier on the pocketbook to buy something close to what you want as opposed to a fixer-upper. 

Just make sure to do things on your terms, be careful, and be smart. You'll love owning a Mooney!

[gregwatts]

Convince your wife.......would be the first step! Then read Rob's suggestion.

[jetdriven]

our third partner had his PPL and 100 hours with zero complex. With a competent MOONEY instructor and 25 hours or so, you can do it.

[MooneyMitch]

Honestly, you really don't have to ask for advice on MooneySpace!  One of the great things [hopefully this will carry through to the new updated MooneySpace site] on our forum is the automatic ADVICE and OPINION feature 

All you need to do is simply enter your subject in the Post Title box.  Then enter your information or question in the Message Text  box. 

Once your information or question is entered, just hit the Submit button and ADVICE and OPINIONS start appearing immediately.  Well not always immediately ............sometimes it could take as much as up to one minute or more for it to kick in, so please be patient 

Remember now, it's fully automatic so no need to ask 

[MooneyMitch]

Oh, by the way, since you did ask.....................you are not too inexperienced for a Mooney M20F.  Check it out throughly as suggested and if it's all well and good...........go for it.  You will not be disappointed!

[gregwatts]

Quote: Mitch

Honestly, you really don't have to ask for advice on MooneySpace! One of the great things [hopefully this will carry through to the new updated MooneySpace site] on our forum is the automatic ADVICE and OPINION feature

All you need to do is simply enter your subject in the Post Title box. Then enter your information or question in the Message Text box.

Once your information or question is entered, just hit the Submit button and ADVICE and OPINIONS start appearing immediately. Well not always immediately ............sometimes it could take as much as up to one minute or more for it to kick in, so please be patient

Remember now, it's fully automatic so no need to ask

[stevesm20b]

I would also do some research on controller.com and trade a plane to find out how much other planes are sailing for and how their equiped. It would give you an idea of how much airplane you can buy on your budget. Sometimes there is not much difference in price between  an "F" and a "J".

[jnisley]

Although my PPL training/solo flights and checkride was done in a 172, all during my PPL training I was building time in the Mooney (with my instructor of course) 

If I recall right needed 25 hours complex time to satisfy insurance requirements.

[AcclaimML]

Hi Kujo-  I just bought an Acclaim so I just went through where you are headed.  Definately got to get the boss on board before even walking out the door.  All the advice above is great--and is sounds like your ready just take your time to find a good AP and instructor---MONEY well spent.  Also i found this site that was great for comparing planes available in the class your looking for, price, location , and how long they have been on the market (really helps in your negotiations).  It helped me get a great deal.

http://www.globalplanesearch.com

[kujo806]

Thanks for all the replies.  Its good to know many of you were low time pilots when you bought a Mooney.  So far I have not found anyone local with Mooney experience, but I will study up on things to look for in this forum and possibly fly over to see it this week.  As far as what type of plane would suit my needs, I have thought about this during my training.  I think a nice C/E model would be fine although I have always thought a F/J would be optimal...I just wasn't planning to actualy buy anything for a year or two.  According to the owner, this M20F had a firewall forward overhaul a couple years back with less than 200 hours on the engine and prop currently.  He also said it has newer paint and leather interior with a J style cowl and flap/aileron gap seals.  He put a 430 GPS in it as well.  It sounds pretty well equipped.  If it looks and flies as good as it sounds, I will have to figure out whether or not to move forward.

I suppose the next step after taking a look would be to work out a price and inspection agreement?  The owner said he would pay for an annual as it is due in December, but I probably would not want to use it as an inspection unless it was with an independent shop (not his usual guy).  Unfortunately, being fairly new to aviation, I don't really have a trusted A&P.  I guess I will have to trust a Mooney shop (Wilmar?) or find a good shop through someone in my flying club. 

[carusoam]

Search for MSC. decide if using one is good for you.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Kujo--

I had less than 100 hours when I bought my C; your additional hours should reduce insurance somewhat.

George Perry has a great thread buried here about what to look for when shopping for a vintage Mooney. I highly recommend use of the search box, it has a lot of great information.

C's are great for 2-person travel. I've had 4 adults inside a few times, but it's best for short trips and no luggage, as the back seats get cramped and there's little useful load left for luggage [depending upon the adults!]. F's have more rear seat legroom; E, F & J have more HP, but the fuel injection system management is somewhat more complicated than the carburetor in my C.

Go for it, but don't rush into anything. Get a good pre-purchase inspection and negotiate everything that turns up. I bought mine a year or two before I was ready to start looking, because sometimes you actually find the proverbial "deal to good to refuse." I highly recommend attending a MAPA PPP to learn how to properly fly her once you finish your checkout and dual; my PPP started 34 days after finishing dual, and I'm heading back this week for a refresher [400+ Mooney hours later] to see what I've forgotten and what bad habits have snuck in.

Either way, have fun and fly safe!

[kujo806]

Thank you for the pointer to George's post.  There are a lot of good points in there.  I am taking down some notes from that post on what to look for, and I am going to plan on flying over to see the plane this weekend.  If everything goes well, I will plan to work out a pre-buy at Wilmar with the owner.  Does anyone have any comments on Wilmar service?  I have read several posts from people who had their tanks resealed there, and I believe the comments were generally positive.  I also have a question about how to handle the pre-buy.  The owner offered to pay for the annual with the purchase because it is due in December.  I would assume this would be with "his guy".  I was thinking about offering to pay for the general annual labor if done at Wilmar if he picks up the squawks (knowing that it may cost more at a MSC).  Another thought I had was to just pay for a pre-buy inspection at Wilmar, and then let him pick up the actual annual at his shop (assuming any pre-buy squawks get fixed at that time).  Does this sound like a decent idea or am I being naive?

[MooneyMitch]

Hi kujo806.

You might querry Antares here on MooneySpace.  He recently purchased a Mooney that had been maintained by Wilmar.  I'll bet he can help you with many of your questions, along with information you're about to receive here on MooneySpace.

Best to you and welcome to the wonderful world of Mooney airplanes. 

[gregwatts]

Quote: kujo806

Thank you for the pointer to George's post. There are a lot of good points in there. I am taking down some notes from that post on what to look for, and I am going to plan on flying over to see the plane this weekend. If everything goes well, I will plan to work out a pre-buy at Wilmar with the owner. Does anyone have any comments on Wilmar service? I have read several posts from people who had their tanks resealed there, and I believe the comments were generally positive. I also have a question about how to handle the pre-buy. The owner offered to pay for the annual with the purchase because it is due in December. I would assume this would be with "his guy". I was thinking about offering to pay for the general annual labor if done at Wilmar if he picks up the squawks (knowing that it may cost more at a MSC). Another thought I had was to just pay for a pre-buy inspection at Wilmar, and then let him pick up the actual annual at his shop (assuming any pre-buy squawks get fixed at that time). Does this sound like a decent idea or am I being naive?

[MARZ]

When I bought my F I was about 8 hours before my check ride for my PPL (I figured if I was going to do this flying thing there wasn't any better way to ensure it happened)

Mission is one consideration - I can truly say that the Mooney is as well suited for just poking holes in the sky locally as it is for going on long cross country flights.  You can throttle back and match the performance of that Cessna at a much lower fuel burn and do it in style!!!

I paid for the pre buy and the seller paid for any airworthiness squawks - then I paid for the things that were not airworthy issues but for my taste had to be done.  ( I wanted new rubber and tubes etc)

[scottfromiowa]

I live in Cedar Rapids.  I would be happy to show you my plane and answer any Mooney questions you have.  I had about the same experience (types of aircraft and total time) you do now when I bought my M20E.  Send me a PM with your phone # if you want to get together.  Good luck in your search for a Mooney.  I agree with Mitch, you won't regret it, but definitely find the right model for your mission and DO NOT GET IN A HURRY.  There are LOTS of good planes out there and the market definitely favors the buyer.  Buying the best plane you can afford is in my opinion a better decision than buying the MOST plane you can afford.  By best I mean maintenance history, airframe history, current use, time since overhaul (hours and actual TIME)  Tanks sealed, panel updates, airframe updates etc...

Scott

[jacobwall]

First of all, I want to say that I have been reading the forums here for a while now, and this seems to be a great group of Mooney enthusiasts with very helpful information. Next I want apologize in advance for possibly rambling a bit in this post, but I am a new pilot and a bit overwhelmed right now.

I just recently got my PPL and have just over 100 hours total time primarily in a Warrior and Archer with a few hours in a 172. It has been a goal and dream of mine to get a Mooney of my own someday (hence following the forums here), although I figured I would build some time and experience first by renting and look into ownership down the road.

This week, my wife's uncle called me because he knows a guy who is up there in age and selling his beloved M20F that he has owned for 37 years. After talking to the seller, it sounds like the airplane has been his pride and joy with many mods and a great maintenance history. I have figured that when the time came, I would be interested in a M20F or J, so I found this occurance to be pretty interesting, unfortunately I don't know where to start. Because I was not planning on seriously shopping for a plane yet, I am caught off guard and a bit overwhelmed.

I guess my first question is...am I stupid for even considering pursuing this plane at my level of experience?

Other than that, I don't know of any Mooney experts in my area that I could consult for checking out the aircraft or giving me advice on how to buy a Mooney. I don't even know if I could get insurance on it. I don't really know what my next step should be. I plan to get my complex endorsement in the next few weeks on an Arrow (I was planning on that before this came up), but I don't know how to get any Mooney time or find a local Mooney authority.

I suppose my next step may be to go look at it in person, preferrably with someone that has Mooney knowledge. It is not too far from me by air so travel isn't too much of a hassle. Other than convincing my wife, the financials aren't too big of an obstacle. Any suggestions on what to do next would be helpful and appreciated.

I got in a M20C at 150TT/0MM/25 Complex and our insurance premium was $1649 per year with an insured value of $79000. Since you've got an F and 0 complex time you're looking at a little bit more even if at the same insured value. Going to a Mooney with low time, such as I did, was not that hard to transition to. It's surely a much different type of airplane to fly (I came from a 172 and 177RG) but it isn't anything you probably can't handle. I suggest that you take your time with your insurance checkout, while insurance only wanted 1 hour of dual instruction for me I continued on to do around 10. Since the first of the year I've put another 100 hours or so on since I'm glad that I spent the extra time on the insurance checkout.

[kujo806]

Thank you to everyone for all the good advice and tips. Special thanks to Scott for showing me his plane and pointing out some things to look for. I got a call from the owner this morning, and he has decided not to sell his plane and try to renew his medical. Of course if he doesn't pass or decides to sell down the road, I told him to give me a call. This happened just as I was getting excited about flying out there tomorrow to check it out. I think it is for the best however. Now the pressure is off, and I can take my time finding the right deal. The situation has given me the itch though, so this won't be the last you hear from me on Mooneyspace! I will go back to my original plan of building complex time in the club Arrow until the next opportunity comes along. If anyone knows of a good plane looking for a new owner, let me know . Thanks again.