Mooney down at East Hampton

[jackn]

A Mooney went down this afternoon at HTO. Here Is the link. Looks to be engine failure on takeoff.

http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/East-End/436330/Small-Plane-Crashes-At-East-Hampton-Airport

[jetdriven]

Let this serve as a warning, do not attempt to return to the airport after engine failure. it is usually not possible. The results are far too often disastrous. The odds are largely not in your favor.

According to witnesses at the airport, the plane was a single-engine aircraft that experienced unknown difficulties just after taking off. The pilot attempted to turn around and land the plane but crashed into a wooded area across from the airport near Daniels Hole Road.

[Piloto]

Landing back onto the runway after engine failure is dificult but feasible given the circumstances. I had two engine failures after takeoff and managed to land back on the runway.

On my first incident I lost power after rotation at about 100ft off the runway. Luckily the runway was 9,000ft and I just landed straight ahead. The lost of power was due to water in the tanks even though I drained the tanks. The cause was related to clogged drain holes at the drain adapter plate. When they are clogged the valve drains fuel from the stem top instead from the very bottom. This leaves about two inches of undrained fuel or water in the tank.

On my second incident I lost power upon turning left after takeoff at 500ft. I continued the turn on downind and landed safely on the runway. The engine failure was due to a loose fuel injector line nut. This was the first flight after the annual and it is suspected the line nut was not fully tight. The line nut was retighten and problem solved. If I would not have made that left turn but instead depart straight I would have probably end up on I-95.

What I found is that making a turn after takeoff puts you in a better position for returning back to the runway, but that also depends at what altitude the failure occurs

José 

 

 

[aviatoreb]

Quote: Piloto

Landing back onto the runway after engine failure is dificult but feasible given the circumstances. I had two engine failures after takeoff and managed to land back on the runway.

On my first incident I lost power after rotation at about 100ft off the runway. Luckily the runway was 9,000ft and I just landed straight ahead. The lost of power was due to water in the tanks even though I drained the tanks. The cause was related to clogged drain holes at the drain adapter plate. When they are clogged the valve drains fuel from the stem top instead from the very bottom. This leaves about two inches of undrained fuel or water in the tank.

On my second incident I lost power upon turning left after takeoff at 500ft. I continued the turn on downind and landed safely on the runway. The engine failure was due to a loose fuel injector line nut. This was the first flight after the annual and it is suspected the line nut was not fully tight. The line nut was retighten and problem solved. If I would not have made that left turn but instead depart straight I would have probably end up on I-95.

What I found is that making a turn after takeoff puts you in a better position for returning back to the runway, but that also depends at what altitude the failure occurs

José 

 

 

[aviatoreb]

Quote: jetdriven

Let this serve as a warning, do not attempt to return to the airport after engine failure. it is usually not possible. The results are far too often disastrous. The odds are largely not in your favor.

According to witnesses at the airport, the plane was a single-engine aircraft that experienced unknown difficulties just after taking off. The pilot attempted to turn around and land the plane but crashed into a wooded area across from the airport near Daniels Hole Road.

[Piloto]

Quote: aviatoreb

Two engine failures no less?  That is not so encouraging but glad you are here to tell about it, with special mitigating circumstances.  You do have many hours under your belt though I understand.  Were these both in your current airplane.

[Lionudakis]

I don't know anything about the airport, but the idiot who comments on the news article about closing the airport after the crash is whats wrong in this country, pure ignorance imo. Glad they survived it, The airframe probably helped a bunch. 

[MooneyMitch]

"airframe probably helped a bunch."

 

Uh oh !

[jetdriven]

THere is a reason BPPP and the Mooney Safety Foundation no longer teach runway tunrbacks. After a fatal crash or two, they realized it is just way too hazardous to be considered short of facing a brick wall straight ahead. 45-60 degree bank with the stall warning going off, and the nose 20 degrees below the horizon. One bite at the apple.   Consider one more thing, do your passengers have such an informed choice?

 

Check the video of this Mooney Bravo.  he went from ~700 feet to the ground in about 3 seconds. Not for me.

http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/2011/07/articles/general-aviation/the-impossible-turn-and-three-mooney-crashes-in-two-weeks/

[kris_adams]

Yikes, that video was disturbing...

[Lionudakis]

Quote: Kris_Adams

Yikes, that video was disturbing...

[aviatoreb]

Quote: jetdriven

THere is a reason BPPP and the Mooney Safety Foundation no longer teach runway tunrbacks. After a fatal crash or two, they realized it is just way too hazardous to be considered short of facing a brick wall straight ahead. 45-60 degree bank with the stall warning going off, and the nose 20 degrees below the horizon. One bite at the apple.   Consider one more thing, do your passengers have such an informed choice?

 

Check the video of this Mooney Bravo.  he went from ~700 feet to the ground in about 3 seconds. Not for me.

http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/2011/07/articles/general-aviation/the-impossible-turn-and-three-mooney-crashes-in-two-weeks/

[Piloto]

Quote: jetdriven

THere is a reason BPPP and the Mooney Safety Foundation no longer teach runway tunrbacks. After a fatal crash or two, they realized it is just way too hazardous to be considered short of facing a brick wall straight ahead. 45-60 degree bank with the stall warning going off, and the nose 20 degrees below the horizon. One bite at the apple.   Consider one more thing, do your passengers have such an informed choice?

 

Check the video of this Mooney Bravo.  he went from ~700 feet to the ground in about 3 seconds. Not for me.

http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/2011/07/articles/general-aviation/the-impossible-turn-and-three-mooney-crashes-in-two-weeks/

[flyboy0681]

I think we all know by now that the impossible turn is just that most of the time, so try to fight your instincts and land straight ahead.

One other thing that caught my eye from the article was this tidbit: "The witnesses said the male pilot was able to exit the aircraft and then help his female passenger exit the plane before rescue workers arrived."

 

 

[Dale]

Chilling video.  The turn back to the airport after an engine failure is normally impossible unless certain very specific conditions prevail.  Altitude and load in the aircraft are two key components.  With enough altitude and a light aircraft the conditions "may" allow for a return to the airport although not a return to the runway.  It would require a split second decision.  It seems more pilots make the decision to attempt the turn because of unsuitable terrain in the vicinity of the airport.  I know at my airport, it is completely surrounded by homes.  You would need to try and make it to the nearest highway for a reasonable chance to get the plane down without serious injury.  My airport does have parallel runways which could allow for a turn to the parallel runway after an engine failure on takeoff but the circumstances would have to be almost perfect (sufficient altitude, light aircraft, split second decision).  Years ago there were plenty of open fields around the airport to put the plane down.  Those have all given way to housing developments now.

[rbridges]

Quote: flyboy0681

I think we all know by now that the impossible turn is just that most of the time, so try to fight your instincts and land straight ahead.

One other thing that caught my eye from the article was this tidbit: "The witnesses said the male pilot was able to exit the aircraft and then help his female passenger exit the plane before rescue workers arrived."

 

 

[fantom]

The home drome that Dale and I share has runways that make a turn back a bit easier, especially given the concentration of  homes in all directions. and the fact that more than a few straight ahead engine out landings from HWO resulted in multiple deaths including people on the ground.

The Impossible - Possible turn is just that, but you better be on your game, know how to keep your cool, have practiced it at altitude many times, know what's around the airport (aerial photo helps), know your altitude (more than 700 ft. AGL for me), know exactly where the wind is coming from at which direction you should turn so you don't overshoot, what other traffic is on the runways, and if you've already retracted the gear decide in advance if you want to put them back down.

Lots to know and think about in a very short time, but it can and has been done MANY times, including at HWO...but that never makes the newspapers.

[mooneysteve]

It wasnt an attempt to turn back to the runway, it was attempt to flatten out and make it to a safe landing area, which didnt happen, so it was put into the trees as flat as possible. How do I know this..........it was me and we are both alive.

[mooneysteve]

It wasnt an attempt to turn back to the runway, it was attempt to flatten out and make it to a safe landing area, which didnt happen, so it was put into the trees as flat as possible. How do I know this..........it was me and we are both alive.

[jetdriven]

Steve, let me be the first to apologize to you and I wish you both a full recovery.  The news report was inaccurate.

Excellent job on the forced landing. Trees are not easy, I have been told.

[jkenney]

Congratulations Steve!    When you have a little more time if you could post us on what happened and how you responded I would love to have the opportunity to learn from your experience.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: mooneysteve

It wasnt an attempt to turn back to the runway, it was attempt to flatten out and make it to a safe landing area, which didnt happen, so it was put into the trees as flat as possible. How do I know this..........it was me and we are both alive.

[fantom]

You done good, Steve! Thanks for setting the record straight!

News rags get aviation facts correct just about as often as they do political facts ;-)

[jackn]

Rwy 10 has no good options for a forced landing. It's all trees. Good job, Steve. I wish you and your wife a speedy recovery.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: mooneysteve

It wasnt an attempt to turn back to the runway, it was attempt to flatten out and make it to a safe landing area, which didnt happen, so it was put into the trees as flat as possible. How do I know this..........it was me and we are both alive.