Justin Schmidt Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: If you’re mooney doesn’t stall relatively straight ahead during a coordinated stall, it’s set up wrong and should be fixed. There are stall strips on the leading edge of the wing that are set at the factory but can get moved during say painting or other maintenance that affect the stall characteristics. I think that is my issue, the problem is finding someone in the know and someone that can check and fix rigging 1
midlifeflyer Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 12 minutes ago, Justin Schmidt said: I think that is my issue, the problem is finding someone in the know and someone that can check and fix rigging I mentioned the incipient Mooney spin earlier. One personal practice it has led to is, if I am not familiar with the airplane - I mean that specific N-Numbered airplane, not just make and model, we climb up higher than usual and the first stall is mine. 4
Shadrach Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 On 1/14/2026 at 9:59 AM, jcolgan said: Went and did two day spin training in a citabria. Safe and effective. I avoid spins in my Mooney by avoiding stalls. Loathe slow flight, want to recover at first buffet during BFR. One instructor got exasperated, took controls and full stalled my Mooney. Broke left and was going straight down in a heart beat. After recovery acted like it was no big deal. Never flew with him again. I see no reason to get close to a potentially non-recoverable situation for training purposes. Slow flight, stalls and spins in a high wing Cessna, no problem. In a Mooney, no thank you - I’ll pass. I’m mean no offence, but it reads like you’ve created a boogie man where one does not exist. What you’ve described really isn’t a big deal provided the maneuver is conducted with adequate altitude. A stall break is not a potentially unrecoverable situation nor is a wing drop. In my experience, people who are uncomfortable with stalls tend to build them up in their mind to be something far more dramatic then they actually are. I’ve heard lots of new pilots tell, “there I was flat on my back” stories about practice departure stalls with a 40° wing drop in a C150 that has turned into a 110°wing drop by the time they’re back in the pilot’s lounge. Mooneys can have aggressive power on, stall characteristics. A poorly rigged airplane can exhibit unexpected behavior as well. That being said, the airframe is not scary to stall. With practice, one can recover from a full break, power off stall in <200 feet. The aircraft is docile in slow flight. In the clean configuration, I have held my aircraft in a falling leaf for nearly 1000 feet of altitude loss while holding the wings within ~30° of level. Everyone has a right to operate as they see fit, but I think it’s a bad idea to scare others away from working towards proficiency. Avoiding slow flight does not make for proficiency, especially in an airframe that the statistics show is prone to being floated down the runway in ground affect and off the departure end in a blaze of tire smoke. 5
Hank Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, TaildraggerPilot said: I guess you missed the words “stall” and “awareness”…. sigh No, what i saw was "stall/spin awareness and recovery".
jcolgan Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 46 minutes ago, Shadrach said: I’m mean no offence, but it reads like you’ve created a boogie man where one does not exist. What you’ve described really isn’t a big of a deal provided the maneuver is conducted with adequate altitude. A stall break is not a potentially unrecoverable situation nor is a wing drop. In my experience, people who are uncomfortable with stalls, tend to build them up in their mind to be something far more dramatic than they actually are. I’ve heard lots of new pilots tell, “there I was flat on my back” stories about departure stalls with a 40° wing drop in a C150 that has turned into a 110°wing drop by the time they’re back in the pilot’s lounge. Mooneys can have aggressive power on, stall characteristics. The poorly rigged airplane can exhibit on expected behavior as well. That being said, the airframe is not scary to stall. With practice, one can recover from a full break in <200 feet. The aircraft is docile in slow flight. In the clean configuration, I have held my aircraft in a falling leaf for nearly 1000 feet of loss while holding the wings within ~30° of level. Everyone has a right to operate as they see fit, but I think it’s a bad idea to scare others away from working towards proficiency. Avoiding slow flight does not make for proficiency, especially in an airframe that the statistics show is prone to being floated down the runway in ground affect and off the departure end in a blaze of tire smoke. No offense taken. Not afraid of stalls or spins, just don’t want them done in my plane and they are easy to avoid. Slowest real world flying I’ve ever had to do was following slower traffic in the pattern. What is the point of practicing flight slower than that? Why practice flying slower than I ever intend to fly? What real world scenario would use skills acquired from that type practice?
Andy95W Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 36 minutes ago, jcolgan said: What real world scenario would use skills acquired from that type practice? You’re following slower traffic again, but this time it’s after a long day, you’re a little tired, and there are strong winds. You retard the throttle a little bit because the wind has increased your ground speed and you’re catching up to the slower traffic. Because you’re a little fatigued, you don’t notice your airspeed is decaying as you turn base to final. You start to hear the stall warning, but because you’re tired you think it might be the gear warning because you retarded your throttle. As you double check your gear, you stall because you haven’t practiced slow flight in so long you don’t recognize the warning signs until it’s too late. There’s a reason professional pilots practice all of this stuff, even though there is almost no chance they will ever “need” it. 4
Ragsf15e Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 45 minutes ago, jcolgan said: No offense taken. Not afraid of stalls or spins, just don’t want them done in my plane and they are easy to avoid. Slowest real world flying I’ve ever had to do was following slower traffic in the pattern. What is the point of practicing flight slower than that? Why practice flying slower than I ever intend to fly? What real world scenario would use skills acquired from that type practice? Or maybe you configure and tower asks for a 360 for traffic. You had the throttle back. There’s a good reason that you had to learn these for your ppl. They are basic skills that will keep you and your passengers alive. 1
TaildraggerPilot Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 2 hours ago, Hank said: No, what i saw was "stall/spin awareness and recovery". No, what you want to do is show your ass and throw the vaunted “FAA” government acronym around like a know-it-all. Please use the ignore function on me, asshat.
jcolgan Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 39 minutes ago, Andy95W said: You’re following slower traffic again, but this time it’s after a long day, you’re a little tired, and there are strong winds. You retard the throttle a little bit because the wind has increased your ground speed and you’re catching up to the slower traffic. Because you’re a little fatigued, you don’t notice your airspeed is decaying as you turn base to final. You start to hear the stall warning, but because you’re tired you think it might be the gear warning because you retarded your throttle. As you double check your gear, you stall because you haven’t practiced slow flight in so long you don’t recognize the warning signs until it’s too late. There’s a reason professional pilots practice all of this stuff, even though there is almost no chance they will ever “need” it. The slower traffic will be affected by the same winds. Won’t have to be near stall speed to avoid closing the gap, or I will exit the pattern. Not a convincing argument. 1
Andy95W Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 I’m glad to hear you’re such a good pilot it could never happen to you. 1
jcolgan Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 41 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: Or maybe you configure and tower asks for a 360 for traffic. You had the throttle back. There’s a good reason that you had to learn these for your ppl. They are basic skills that will keep you and your passengers alive. Don’t have to fly the requested 360 at a speed near stalling. Stall avoidance should be practiced and hammered home in training. Slow flight, in my opinion is over rated and unnecessary for safety. Of course my opinion is of no importance whatsoever.
Ragsf15e Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 Just now, jcolgan said: Don’t have to fly the requested 360 at a speed near stalling. Stall avoidance should be practiced and hammered home in training. Slow flight, in my opinion is over rated and unnecessary for safety. Of course my opinion is of no importance whatsoever. No, you don’t have to fly it slow, but there are lots of times you can end up slower than you prefer and it’s good to have practice at a safe altitude before you find yourself there. Avoiding it is great until you don’t. Just my opinion, but if you can’t fly the basic private pilot maneuvers with some confidence, you should probably practice until you can. 3
jcolgan Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said: No, you don’t have to fly it slow, but there are lots of times you can end up slower than you prefer and it’s good to have practice at a safe altitude before you find yourself there. Avoiding it is great until you don’t. Just my opinion, but if you can’t fly the basic private pilot maneuvers with some confidence, you should probably practice until you can. I can fly them. I just don’t think it is worthwhile. Nor can I think of any times I would absolutely have to fly slower than I prefer. Divert, change plans, adapt. Training used to require spins, but that was abandoned after it proved dangerous. The standards can be changed, but until they are I will comply while believing the slow flight portions are not helpful. 1
Andy95W Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 I’m still trying to wrap my head around the irony that someone named Colgan doesn’t see the need to practice slow flight and stalls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 1 4
jcolgan Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 15 minutes ago, Andy95W said: I’m still trying to wrap my head around the irony that someone named Colgan doesn’t see the need to practice slow flight and stalls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 Don’t have anyone to flirt with to distract me.
Echo Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 I am confused. How many coordinated stalls does someone need to understand stall recovery? It is no big deal. That said, avoidance is the best way to go in flying your Mooney. Uncoordinated stalls are not trivial and down low are NO JOKE. A power on stall is also interesting in a Mooney. My planes could hang in a VERY high nose up position. Just why? You should NEVER fly your plane under normal circumstances like this.
Echo Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: No, you don’t have to fly it slow, but there are lots of times you can end up slower than you prefer and it’s good to have practice at a safe altitude before you find yourself there. Avoiding it is great until you don’t. Just my opinion, but if you can’t fly the basic private pilot maneuvers with some confidence, you should probably practice until you can. Meh. Slow flight on stall horn every flight review. I just think it’s stupid. I do NOT fly my plane like that. How many times do you need to do it to know how NOT to do it?
MikeOH Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 I practice steep turns, slow flight, and stalls every few months. My rationale is that I want to maintain a feel for the performance edges of my aircraft; I personally think that skill/ability atrophies. While I don't intentionally fly in that regime on normal flights, I also believe that distractions and events might put me in a less than ideal flight regime. That's when recency of training and the feel it imparts might just save my ass. Yes, all you ace-of-the-base pilots know that you're too good for that to ever happen to you. I acknowledge it could happen to me, so I plan to LIVE with that limitation. 3
midlifeflyer Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 14 hours ago, Shadrach said: In my experience, people who are uncomfortable with stalls, tend to build them up in their mind to be something far more dramatic then they actually are. This is often the fault of the CFI who provided initial training. And flight schools which don’t allow students to practice stalls solo. It’s easy to see why a product of either would think stall = death. Some years ago, I did a flight review for a CFI friend. His recovery from a simple power off stall in a 172 was to shove the stick way forward. Sensation was being pointed directly at the ground. I thought I was going to lose my lunch from the initial negative G.. I asked him, “are your students afraid of stalls?” When he replied, “yes,” I said “I think I know why.” I feel very fortunate to be a product of neither. In fact, my private CFI and I did a lesson just after solo which specifically included practicing stalls (yes, in the dreaded Tomahawk!). BTW, I did not receive spin training as a private pilot. I don’t even like spins. The ground going around in circles in front of me is just not my idea of a good time. But I’m not afraid of them and had no trouble recovering (incipient) from the two clients who have put us into one (I actually saw the first one developing and I allowed it to happen - it ended up being a great lesson). 4
N201MKTurbo Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 It sounds like the problem isn’t that the student pushed the yoke full forward, but they delayed the recovery to level flight. I always recover by simultaneously applying full power and pushing the yoke full forward. As soon as the airplane is flying again I bring the nose to the horizon. Usually with about 100 feet of altitude loss. This is from a full stall. The nose never gets very far down. 1 1
midlifeflyer Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 42 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: It sounds like the problem isn’t that the student pushed the yoke full forward, but they delayed the recovery to level flight. I always recover by simultaneously applying full power and pushing the yoke full forward. As soon as the airplane is flying again I bring the nose to the horizon. Usually with about 100 feet of altitude loss. This is from a full stall. The nose never gets very far down. If you are referring to my post just above this, it wasn't a student, it was a CFI. I never push the yoke full forward for a simple stall recovery. When I have a pilot who is fearful of stalls, I do one or both or all of three power-off stall exercises with them. One is falling leaf, where there is no "recovery" until the maneuver is completed. That bobbing of the nose is the airplane attempting to recover by itself, which you are preventing by continuing to hold the stick back. The second is a power-off recovery. The third was the one my CFI went over with me all those years ago for solo stall practice. Just letting go of the yoke while maintaining rudder coordination. 1
SilentT Posted January 15 Author Report Posted January 15 30 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said: If you are referring to my post just above this, it wasn't a student, it was a CFI. I never push the yoke full forward for a simple stall recovery. When I have a pilot who is fearful of stalls, I do one or both or all of three power-off stall exercises with them. One is falling leaf, where there is no "recovery" until the maneuver is completed. That bobbing of the nose is the airplane attempting to recover by itself, which you are preventing by continuing to hold the stick back. The second is a power-off recovery. The third was the one my CFI went over with me all those years ago for solo stall practice. Just letting go of the yoke while maintaining rudder coordination. This thread is my first time hearing about falling leaf. Conceptually in my i head I understand. Going to have to investigate.
Echo Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 19 hours ago, MikeOH said: I practice steep turns, slow flight, and stalls every few months. My rationale is that I want to maintain a feel for the performance edges of my aircraft; I personally think that skill/ability atrophies. While I don't intentionally fly in that regime on normal flights, I also believe that distractions and events might put me in a less than ideal flight regime. That's when recency of training and the feel it imparts might just save my ass. Yes, all you ace-of-the-base pilots know that you're too good for that to ever happen to you. I acknowledge it could happen to me, so I plan to LIVE with that limitation. I saw the sign(s)…Ace of Base.
1980Mooney Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 On 1/14/2026 at 10:04 AM, Ragsf15e said: There are stall strips on the leading edge of the wing that are set at the factory but can get moved during say painting or other maintenance that affect the stall characteristics. How would stall strips get moved? I believe they are all screwed in (at least mine are). No one is drilling new holes in the leading edge of the wing during maintenance or painting and moving them around.
midlifeflyer Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 11 hours ago, SilentT said: This thread is my first time hearing about falling leaf. Conceptually in my i head I understand. Going to have to investigate. You should be able to find plenty of detail. Basically, you set up for a level flight power-off stall at a higher altitude. When the stall comes, you continue to hold the stick full aft to prevent a recovery. You maintain coordination with the rudder. The nose will tend to bob up and down, more in some types, less in others. Recover when you are happy.
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