My quest for speed

[Hank]

On 9/29/2025 at 10:45 PM, Utah20Gflyer said:

I did my private in a Cherokee.  It’s the Ford Fiesta of airplanes.  

 

7 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

Hmmm. Toyota Celica? 

No, the base Cherokee, even Archers, is just a Fiesta. The Celica has always had too much get up and go.

[Hank]

18 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I have only flown formation with a C model. The difference in both climb and cruise surprised both of us. 

While it wasn't a formation flight, I took a friend to pick up his 75 F after AP work, a bit over and hour away. On the flight home, despite the 3-blade airbrake on my C, I kept his F in sight, and I was on downwind about the time he parked.

[DXB]

A bit slow for a stock E.  I take a strong principled stand against the folks here saying to put up with it - you didn't buy this thing to putt along at 143 - 148kts!   You wanna be seen getting outrun by my well-modded C??!! How's that for a motivational pep talk?   

Cheapest speed mods are rigging it perfectly and waxing the wings. Make sure gear doors close fully. 

Timing advance in cruise from a Surefly will give you a clear benefit also for not too much money.  The powerflow helped my C a good bit but may not do much for the E's engine/exhaust setup. The cowl closure looks nice but does nothing.  Brake caliper rotation and flap gap seals are cheap mods that actually help a bit.  Most other mods do very little. The 201 windshield is hard to find now and is a very expensive way to get a couple extra kts. Same with a 2 blade top prop. The windshield does make the cabin feel more spacious, improves visibility and perceptibly decreases prop noise.  

[AndreiC]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

The cowl closure looks nice but does nothing.  Brake caliper rotation and flap gap seals are cheap mods that actually help a bit.  Most other mods do very little. The 201 windshield is hard to find now and is a very expensive way to get a couple extra kts. Same with a 2 blade top prop. The windshield does make the cabin feel more spacious, improves visibility and perceptibly decreases prop noise.  

Thanks, Dev. I spoke to the folks at LASAR and decided to try to install the flap gap seals (at least) at my next annual. (At the moment they are trying to get things squared away with the FAA after their move to Oregon, and are not selling any of the kits; but they should be available in a month or so.) The other two kits they recommended were the dorsal fin vertical seal and the wing root fairing. Anyone have any experience if these two do anything to improve speed?

[Pinecone]

13 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I guess I’ve never really considered that one might be able to set track records with a front wheel drive car. It seems fundamentally to be the wrong tool for the job. I’ve enjoyed lots of front drivers as street cars (Cooper S and Fiat Abart in particular) but I’ve never thought of the them as track cars… But then I don’t race, so what do I know?

They set track records for THEIR CLASS.  Not outright.

LOVE my Fiat 500 Abarth.

Hmmmm, 500 Abarth, E46 M3, E36 M3 LTW, Mooney M20K 252.   Maybe a trend.

[Paul Thomas]

11 hours ago, AndreiC said:

Maybe as the OP I will add that whoever guessed Porsche 914 has my vote. That is my fun car  Here is a pic of it. Born same year and month as myself. (That is the Porsche for CB's, 1/4 of the price of a 911...)

I wanted to buy one as my first car but once my mother heard Porsche, it was swiftly ruled out. Back then you could get a rust free 914/6 for very little money. My argument that it was just like a WW Beetle was ineffective.

[TheAv8r]

The only speed mod I have on my E is the cowl enclosure (LASAR), it has the 1-piece windshield (not J) but that's it. I get the same as you LOP, around 142-145kts TAS @ 65% power at 7.5-8gph, but ROP I will get 152-155kts TAS at 75% power, 12gph to be 150deg ROP. Book figures are actually like 160kts if you can believe it, but nobody is getting those numbers out of a stock E haha. If you're getting 148, it is a tad slow for an E, I've owned 2 and both had no problem hitting low 150s at 75% power. I routinely fly mine LOP, the 10kt speed penalty is worth the 4gph saving... Up at higher altitudes (e.g. 9000) I see even better, this past weekend I flew to NC and at 9k, 65% power (WOT, around 20" MP, 2450 RPM) leaned to 8gph (20deg LOP) I was getting 145-148kts TAS.

[AndreiC]

13 minutes ago, TheAv8r said:

The only speed mod I have on my E is the cowl enclosure (LASAR), it has the 1-piece windshield (not J) but that's it. I get the same as you LOP, around 142-145kts TAS @ 65% power at 7.5-8gph, but ROP I will get 152-155kts TAS at 75% power, 12gph to be 150deg ROP. Book figures are actually like 160kts if you can believe it, but nobody is getting those numbers out of a stock E haha. If you're getting 148, it is a tad slow for an E, I've owned 2 and both had no problem hitting low 150s at 75% power. I routinely fly mine LOP, the 10kt speed penalty is worth the 4gph saving... Up at higher altitudes (e.g. 9000) I see even better, this past weekend I flew to NC and at 9k, 65% power (WOT, around 20" MP, 2450 RPM) leaned to 8gph (20deg LOP) I was getting 145-148kts TAS.

Well, it seems like there is about a 5 knot penalty on my plane for the 1970 model (with many exposed screw heads instead of flush rivets) and inefficient three blade prop. My best speed/fuel efficiency ratio for cruising seems to be 9.3 gph (peak EGT) at 8500 feet, 143 kts, 2500 rpm. 

[Hank]

20 minutes ago, TheAv8r said:

I routinely fly [my E] LOP, the 10kt speed penalty is worth the 4gph saving... Up at higher altitudes (e.g. 9000) I see even better, this past weekend I flew to NC and at 9k, 65% power (WOT, around 20" MP, 2450 RPM) leaned to 8gph (20deg LOP) I was getting 145-148kts TAS.

That's very similar to the performance i get from my C at 9000 msl, WOT- / 2500 and leaned to peak or 25° Rich. No fuel flow installed, but i get ~8.4 gph from fuel pump to fuel pump. I do have the 201 windshield and guppy mouth closure, but also have a Hartzell 3-blade prop. 

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

While it wasn't a formation flight, I took a friend to pick up his 75 F after AP work, a bit over and hour away. On the flight home, despite the 3-blade airbrake on my C, I kept his F in sight, and I was on downwind about the time he parked.

It’s a single data point between two planes. Certainly not a comprehensive model vs model comparison. We were running supplies to NC together. He departed 2 mins ahead of me and despite being within 100lbs gross, I passed over  him about 9nm from the airport as I climbed through 6500 on my way to 8500. He was as surprised as I was at the climb and speed differential. 
 

I will likely start flying that C model while my F is down for upgrades. I’ll get a better idea of the performance differences after a few long cross country trips.