Retract Gear or Flaps First in a Go Around ?

[Slick Nick]

18 hours ago, Pinecone said:

You must read very slowly, as it takes at least 3 - 5 seconds, head down, to go from full flaps to takeoff in my M20K.  It does NOT have the flap position pre-select.

It does take maybe a second to select gear up.

I don’t have any experience with that. My airplane has flap preselect and reaching down for the switch takes no time at all. Don’t even really have to look at it, it’s easily found by feel. (I do not have electric cowl flaps, which would share the same shape of switch.)

[Ibra]

8 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

Fly your airplane how you want to. 

With one caveat, 
 

The standard for teaching and testing tend to be immediate 100% power then flaps-gear-flaps, this seems to be tailored for some types with draggy flaps and underpowered engines. I think one needs to show this on check-rides, if the examiner want to see it that way

Other examiners only care about getting back in one piece without safety compromised: Ok, as long as one has good reason to deviate from POH or understands any implications on performance.

Outside such check-rides, I see nothing “wrong” or “illegal” in say M20J with: 50% power gear up, re-trim, 100% power, then flaps. It’s mostly for convenience…

Edited September 11 by Ibra

[Slick Nick]

2 minutes ago, Ibra said:

With one caveat, 
 

The standard for teaching and testing tend to be immediate 100% power then flaps-gear-flaps, this seems to be tailored for some types with draggy flaps and underpowered engines. I think one needs to show this on check-rides, if the examiner want to see it that way

Outside such check-rides, I see nothing “wrong” or “illegal” in say M20J with: 50% power gear up, re-trim, 100% power, then flaps. It’s mostly for convenience…

Not really one caveat, thousands. It’s impossible to write a POH for every conceivable scenario. Which is why it’s written for a “worst case” which would be slow, and low to the ground, with low energy on a balked landing. The recovery from a balked landing doesn’t need to be used at 1500’ on a discontinued approach outside the FAF, nor was I inferring that. This is where airmanship and good judgement comes into play. 

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, Ibra said:

With one caveat, 
 

The standard for teaching and testing tend to be immediate 100% power then flaps-gear-flaps, this seems to be tailored for some types with draggy flaps and underpowered engines. I think one needs to show this on check-rides, if the examiner want to see it that way

 

Not every one teaches that.

The USAF taught, at least when I went through training, power, gear flaps.

And the T-38 was not exactly limited in power.  So the Power was only about 50% throttle.   And we did full flap touch and goes all the time.

[Ibra]

52 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

USAF taught, at least when I went through training, power, gear flaps.

I am sure there are variations, like the choice of power for speed? or pitch for speed? 

* "Point and power" when it's blasting

* "Pitch for speed" when it's sluggish 

Some pilots do both without thinking 

For flaps & gear, in Mooney, I teach people to go slowly on power, sensible pitch, gear, flap: it works well this way. In school, we get students in Arrow to raise drag flap, then gear, then clean flaps: Flaps retract to 25º, positive rate, Gear Up

What I find interesting, the Arrow gear is way more draggy than Mooney gear...

Anyway, the recommendation from FAA in absence of POH info is still flaps-gear-flaps sequence:
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/10_afh_ch9.pdf

Edited September 11 by Ibra

[Slick Nick]

Because Piper has those huge inner gear doors on a lot of their models. They create large amounts of drag when they open to let the wheels up into the well. I remember decades ago when I flew Navajos, if it was an engine failure on takeoff, it was actually advantageous to leave the gear down, because retracting it opened up the doors to the point that you couldn’t maintain altitude at blue line. 

That was one of the rare instances where you left the gear down until you got some air under your ass to retract it because it would sink momentarily with all of that stuff hanging out. 

[Ibra]

3 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

They create huge amounts of drag when they open to let the wheels up into the well

Yes few aircraft have “extra transient drag” from gear retraction, so have more emphasis on flaps-gear-flaps sequence 

[Hank]

41 minutes ago, Ibra said:

I am sure there are variations, like the choice of power for speed? or pitch for speed? 

Power for speed.on takeoff; pitch for speed when descending to land.

Easy peasy!  

[Ibra]

9 hours ago, Hank said:

Power for speed.on takeoff

Haha, not much choice on takeoff...

For landing, it has to be "power for speed" ("pitch for speed" is the only choice in gliders ), then, one day I  had to "unlearn" as some airline guy wanted to see "pitch for glide" (like his coupled auto-pilote) and "power for speed" (like his auto-throttle) 

I the preference between Gear-Flap-Flap or Flap-Gear-Flap seems to depend on airframe specs as well as operator training background. Personally, I am all for "Gear first" in M20J, however, I used "Flaps first" twice when some examiner (who checks students on multi engine or Arrow) wanted to see Flaps, Gear, Flaps as part of "skill-test or check-ride pass standard"

 

Are there any single engine retracts with draggy 40deg flap and under-powered engine? most ASEL with 40deg flaps seems to be fixed gear...

"STOL + Complex/RG" don't mix very well (unless it's DC3: stol retract with 40deg flaps) 

Edited September 12 by Ibra

[Andy95W]

After all this discussion about flaps, landings, and go arounds,  I started experimenting some in my M20C with stall speeds, flap settings, etc. as well as landing practice with each.

I had been landing flaps full at my home airport (2000’ available).  At longer airports, like 4000’+, I would land with 15° of flap (takeoff setting).

I’ve now changed my thoughts and really like 23° of flap, nicely in between takeoff and full flaps.  I add 5 mph to my full flap speed and it works nicely on all runways, even my short home field.  In my hydraulic-flap Mooney, it’s an even 3 pumps.

Go arounds are a non event: gear up first, trim, retract flaps fully and retrim.  I even did a touch and go landing and it was also a nonevent.

Finally, the airplane feels really good at that flap setting and speed, and the pitch angle is really nice.  Not as flat as full flaps in the flare, not nearly as nose high as 15°.

Thanks to everyone for the discussion and suggestions.  It got me to try something new.

[Matthew P]

It's really a basic aerodynamic principle.. on a go around you already have the additional lift of the flaps so what is it that's holding you back...the drag of the gear...so I really am perplexed as to the point of the original question...by reducing flaps first, you are reducing an element of lift and thereby increasing drag....

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Matthew P said:

It's really a basic aerodynamic principle.. on a go around you already have the additional lift of the flaps so what is it that's holding you back...the drag of the gear...so I really am perplexed as to the point of the original question...by reducing flaps first, you are reducing an element of lift and thereby increasing drag....

I don't want to join what is often a quasi-religious argument about which is better , but that's not necessarily the case. If it were, we would be talking about full-flaps for short field takeoffs. Problem is that in many aircraft, final flaps add more drag than lift.  After all, that's kind of what they are for - to allow a steeper descent without increasing airspeed. 

[PT20J]

22 hours ago, Matthew P said:

It's really a basic aerodynamic principle.. on a go around you already have the additional lift of the flaps so what is it that's holding you back...the drag of the gear...so I really am perplexed as to the point of the original question...by reducing flaps first, you are reducing an element of lift and thereby increasing drag....

I think the point is that some Mooney  POHs say to raise flaps to the TO position first, then retract the gear, and some say the opposite, so it’s valid to question why?

What I’ve learned from this thread is that full flaps and the landing gear have similar drag, but the flaps reduce stall speed and raising them creates a pitch up moment which, combined with the pitch up moment created by adding full power, can be difficult for some pilots of long bodies to control. Given these facts, Don’s @donkaye, MCFI procedure seems best for all models and has the added benefit of being the simplest. 

[Max Clark]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

I think the point is that some Mooney  POHs say to raise flaps to the TO position first, then retract the gear, and some say the opposite, so it’s valid to question why?

What I’ve learned from this thread is that full flaps and the landing gear have similar drag, but the flaps reduce stall speed and raising them creates a pitch up moment, which combined with the pitch up moment created by adding full power, can be difficult for some pilots of long bodies to control. Given these facts, Don’s @donkaye, MCFI procedure seems best for all models and has the added benefit of being the simplest. 

Like mine - positive climb, flaps to 10°, retract gear, retract flaps

[Hank]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

I think the point is that some Mooney  POHs say to raise flaps to the TO position first, then retract the gear, and some say the opposite, so it’s valid to question why? 

My Owners Manual doesn't mention anything other than normal and short field landings. Go arounds weren't a thing back in 1970; I just treat it like a normal takeoff.

[donkaye, MCFI]

7 hours ago, Max Clark said:

Like mine - positive climb, flaps to 10°, retract gear, retract flaps

There was a reason the Acclaim Type S (an Ovation with Turbocharging) changed the order in the later POHs.  Review PT20J above.

[hazek]

22 minutes ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

There was a reason the Acclaim (an Ovation with Turbocharging) changed the order in the later POHs.

Is this correct? I found this:

[donkaye, MCFI]

26 minutes ago, hazek said:

Is this correct? I found this:

No. This.20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf

[hazek]

12 minutes ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

No. This.

I see. How would you explain them reverting back to the previous procedure for the Ultra? Seems to poke a hole in your argument.

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, Hank said:

My Owners Manual doesn't mention anything other than normal and short field landings. Go arounds weren't a thing back in 1970; I just treat it like a normal takeoff.

I think that’s what it comes down to. It’s the way I still teach it regardless of aircraft type.  And my personal methodology is identical in all 30+ single types I have flown. The goal of a go-around or missed approach is the creation of a normal climb. The single biggest issue I see when I teach is rushing it instead of flying it, and I can actually see the potential for loss of control. 

We rarely have to do it for real, so we rarely practice it. That’s what we need to do instead if armchair it.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by midlifeflyer

[1980Mooney]

On 8/27/2025 at 10:35 AM, donkaye, MCFI said:

Due to the significant pitch up when flaps are retracted in Mooneys, especially the long body Mooneys, I have taught to retract the gear 1st, trim down, then retract the flaps when going around.  I always taught the student that the drag of both were comparable.  While most POHs say retract the flaps 1st, in this case I think safety is more important in my opinion than an incorrectly written POH.  Finally, in the Acclaim Type S the POH does have the gear being retracted before the flaps in a go around.

I recently saw a YouTube video of a recent test conducted in a Bonanza on the given topic.  For the Bonanza the conclusion was that the flaps should be retracted first.  I decided to run the test on my airplane, a Bravo M20M.  At 4,500 feet I slowed the plane to a steady 105 knots ( 5 knots below maximum flap extension speed), engaged the autopilot in altitude hold mode and extended the gear.   The plane stabilized at 87 knots for a drag reduction of 18 knots.  I retracted the gear and returned to a stabilized 105 knots.  I then extended full flaps and waited see where the airspeed would stabilize.  It stabilized at---87 knots, the same as with the gear extended.

Demonstrated conclusion:  Confirming my earlier statement, for safety reasons, the gear should be retracted while trimming down before the flaps are retracted in a Mooney go around.

 

19 hours ago, PT20J said:

I think the point is that some Mooney  POHs say to raise flaps to the TO position first, then retract the gear, and some say the opposite, so it’s valid to question why?

What I’ve learned from this thread is that full flaps and the landing gear have similar drag, but the flaps reduce stall speed and raising them creates a pitch up moment, which combined with the pitch up moment created by adding full power, can be difficult for some pilots of long bodies to control. Given these facts, Don’s @donkaye, MCFI procedure seems best for all models and has the added benefit of being the simplest. 

 

8 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

There was a reason the Acclaim Type S (an Ovation with Turbocharging) changed the order in the later POHs.  Review PT20J above.

 

7 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

No. This.20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf20080402_APPROACH FOR LANDING -CAUTION- The airplane must be wit.pdf

After six (6) pages I hope this has been put to rest.  I agree completely with @donkaye, MCFI's instructional advice. And as @PT20J says it keeps it simple (stupid..."KISS").  I was also taught that way and have been doing it from day one consistently for the past 26 years.

[donkaye, MCFI]

8 hours ago, hazek said:

I see. How would you explain them reverting back to the previous procedure for the Ultra? Seems to poke a hole in your argument.

There's no argument.  Do what you want--in my opinion at your own risk.  I gave my opinion that developed over 33 years and over 11,000 hours of flying Mooneys.  The pitch up moment, p-factor, and torque on flap reduction is significant, especially in the long body.  I don't know why the Ultra POH changed back from the Type S, but whoever made the change made a mistake in my opinion.

[donkaye, MCFI]

I'd like to relay one other experience that occured last Monday on a Rocket checkout.  After  doing all the air work and all types of takeoffs and landings, I had the student do a go around.  The gear came up, then the flaps were raised too quickly before trimming down, then the  trim got stuck full up.  It took both hands pushing hard forward  to keep control of the plane.  While pushing hard on the yoke, we both finally were able to break the trim lock and return to normal flight.  Of course had we not been able to break the trim lock there were other things we could have done, but the point here is that in our particular high performance airplanes, raising the flaps without significantly trimming down first could result in loss of control by less experienced pilots.  Therefore, back to gear up first WHILE trimming down.  When you feel a slight downward force on the yoke, only then reduce the flaps.

[midlifeflyer]

39 minutes ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

The pitch up moment, p-factor, and torque on flap reduction is significant, especially in the long body.

I agree completely it's significant. I don't have anywhere near your level of experience, but I'll stick with the biggest problem being lack of practice  - not really being prepared for a go-around - not whether you move flaps to the takeoff position or raise the gear first. When I first checked out in an Ovation, it was a blustery, gusty day and I ended up needing to do a go-around relatively close to the ground. It was no big deal. 

[DCarlton]

17 minutes ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

I'd like to relay one other experience that occured last Monday on a Rocket checkout.  After  doing all the air work and all types of takeoffs and landings, I had the student do a go around.  The gear came up, then the flaps were raised too quickly before trimming down, then the  trim got stuck full up.  It took both hands pushing hard forward  to keep control of the plane.  While pushing hard on the yoke, we both finally are able to break the trim lock and return to normal flight.  Of course had we not been able to break the trim lock there were other things we could have done, but the point here is that in our particular high performance airplanes, raising the flaps without significantly trimming down first could result in loss of control by less experienced pilots.  Therefore, back to gear up first WHILE trimming down.  When you feel a slight downward force on the yoke, only then reduce the flaps.

Trim lock?