Retract Gear or Flaps First in a Go Around ?

[Slick Nick]

18 hours ago, Pinecone said:

You must read very slowly, as it takes at least 3 - 5 seconds, head down, to go from full flaps to takeoff in my M20K.  It does NOT have the flap position pre-select.

It does take maybe a second to select gear up.

I don’t have any experience with that. My airplane has flap preselect and reaching down for the switch takes no time at all. Don’t even really have to look at it, it’s easily found by feel. (I do not have electric cowl flaps, which would share the same shape of switch.)

[Ibra]

8 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

Fly your airplane how you want to. 

With one caveat, 
 

The standard for teaching and testing tend to be immediate 100% power then flaps-gear-flaps, this seems to be tailored for some types with draggy flaps and underpowered engines. I think one needs to show this on check-rides, if the examiner want to see it that way

Other examiners only care about getting back in one piece without safety compromised: Ok, as long as one has good reason to deviate from POH or understands any implications on performance.

Outside such check-rides, I see nothing “wrong” or “illegal” in say M20J with: 50% power gear up, re-trim, 100% power, then flaps. It’s mostly for convenience…

Edited Thursday at 05:34 PM by Ibra

[Slick Nick]

2 minutes ago, Ibra said:

With one caveat, 
 

The standard for teaching and testing tend to be immediate 100% power then flaps-gear-flaps, this seems to be tailored for some types with draggy flaps and underpowered engines. I think one needs to show this on check-rides, if the examiner want to see it that way

Outside such check-rides, I see nothing “wrong” or “illegal” in say M20J with: 50% power gear up, re-trim, 100% power, then flaps. It’s mostly for convenience…

Not really one caveat, thousands. It’s impossible to write a POH for every conceivable scenario. Which is why it’s written for a “worst case” which would be slow, and low to the ground, with low energy on a balked landing. The recovery from a balked landing doesn’t need to be used at 1500’ on a discontinued approach outside the FAF, nor was I inferring that. This is where airmanship and good judgement comes into play. 

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, Ibra said:

With one caveat, 
 

The standard for teaching and testing tend to be immediate 100% power then flaps-gear-flaps, this seems to be tailored for some types with draggy flaps and underpowered engines. I think one needs to show this on check-rides, if the examiner want to see it that way

 

Not every one teaches that.

The USAF taught, at least when I went through training, power, gear flaps.

And the T-38 was not exactly limited in power.  So the Power was only about 50% throttle.   And we did full flap touch and goes all the time.

[Ibra]

52 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

USAF taught, at least when I went through training, power, gear flaps.

I am sure there are variations, like the choice of power for speed? or pitch for speed? 

* "Point and power" when it's blasting

* "Pitch for speed" when it's sluggish 

Some pilots do both without thinking 

For flaps & gear, in Mooney, I teach people to go slowly on power, sensible pitch, gear, flap: it works well this way. In school, we get students in Arrow to raise drag flap, then gear, then clean flaps: Flaps retract to 25º, positive rate, Gear Up

What I find interesting, the Arrow gear is way more draggy than Mooney gear...

Anyway, the recommendation from FAA in absence of POH info is still flaps-gear-flaps sequence:
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/10_afh_ch9.pdf

Edited Thursday at 10:11 PM by Ibra

[Slick Nick]

Because Piper has those huge inner gear doors on a lot of their models. They create large amounts of drag when they open to let the wheels up into the well. I remember decades ago when I flew Navajos, if it was an engine failure on takeoff, it was actually advantageous to leave the gear down, because retracting it opened up the doors to the point that you couldn’t maintain altitude at blue line. 

That was one of the rare instances where you left the gear down until you got some air under your ass to retract it because it would sink momentarily with all of that stuff hanging out. 

[Ibra]

3 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

They create huge amounts of drag when they open to let the wheels up into the well

Yes few aircraft have “extra transient drag” from gear retraction, so have more emphasis on flaps-gear-flaps sequence 

[Hank]

41 minutes ago, Ibra said:

I am sure there are variations, like the choice of power for speed? or pitch for speed? 

Power for speed.on takeoff; pitch for speed when descending to land.

Easy peasy!  

[Ibra]

9 hours ago, Hank said:

Power for speed.on takeoff

Haha, not much choice on takeoff...

For landing, it has to be "power for speed" ("pitch for speed" is the only choice in gliders ), then, one day I  had to "unlearn" as some airline guy wanted to see "pitch for glide" (like his coupled auto-pilote) and "power for speed" (like his auto-throttle) 

I the preference between Gear-Flap-Flap or Flap-Gear-Flap seems to depend on airframe specs as well as operator training background. Personally, I am all for "Gear first" in M20J, however, I used "Flaps first" twice when some examiner (who checks students on multi engine or Arrow) wanted to see Flaps, Gear, Flaps as part of "skill-test or check-ride pass standard"

 

Are there any single engine retracts with draggy 40deg flap and under-powered engine? most ASEL with 40deg flaps seems to be fixed gear...

"STOL + Complex/RG" don't mix very well (unless it's DC3: stol retract with 40deg flaps) 

Edited Friday at 07:47 AM by Ibra