Are Sport Pilots allowed to fly the M20 with the MOSAIC final rule?

[Moondoggy]

Toto,

The airspeed correction chart is the key to properly determining if an airplane meets the requirements to exercise Sport Pilot privileges. Thanks for uploading the chart image; not all POHs have it. 

Hank,

The Mooney 2900LB MTGW increase is at the pilot's discretion as stated in SB M20-252. So, an A&P can, at the request of the pilot/owner, remove the retrofit kit installed in accordance with SB M20-252. Doing this would effectively return the airplane to conformity with the original type certificate and weight limitation. Whether the aircraft is equipped with a steam gauge or glass ADAHRS, the airspeed markings/ranges will need to be regressed to the original limits, the POH supplement will need to be removed, and a logbook entry should be all that is required to allow a Sport Pilot to operate a M20J with a 2740LB MTGW .

 

-Cheers

[1980Mooney]

3 hours ago, Moondoggy said:

 

Toto,

The airspeed correction chart is the key to properly determining if an airplane meets the requirements to exercise Sport Pilot privileges. Thanks for uploading the chart image; not all POHs have it. 

Hank,

The Mooney 2900LB MTGW increase is at the pilot's discretion as stated in SB M20-252. So, an A&P can, at the request of the pilot/owner, remove the retrofit kit installed in accordance with SB M20-252. Doing this would effectively return the airplane to conformity with the original type certificate and weight limitation. Whether the aircraft is equipped with a steam gauge or glass ADAHRS, the airspeed markings/ranges will need to be regressed to the original limits, the POH supplement will need to be removed, and a logbook entry should be all that is required to allow a Sport Pilot to operate a M20J with a 2740LB MTGW .

 

-Cheers

You forgot to mention that the Weight and Balance and resulting useful load calculation sheet would need to be revised in Section VI of your POH.

[Moondoggy]

1980Mooney,

You are absolutely correct! Weight and balance is covered by the SB M20-252 service kit and would also be reverted back to the pre-SB condition.

-Cheers 

[TangoTango]

The new 61.316 states "you may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that, since its original certification, meets the following requirements..." (emphasis mine)

"Since its original certification" as it affects V_S1 is explained on page 244 and specifically excludes modifications, so any airplane that was 2900# from the factory is out. However, I can't find anywhere that addresses the question of aircraft that were originally eligible, then modified to a non-eligible state, then reverted back. Unless I'm missing something, it seems whether those aircraft satisfy the "since its original certification" verbiage is still up for interpretation?

[toto]

2 hours ago, TangoTango said:

The new 61.316 states "you may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that, since its original certification, meets the following requirements..." (emphasis mine)

"Since its original certification" as it affects V_S1 is explained on page 244 and specifically excludes modifications, so any airplane that was 2900# from the factory is out. However, I can't find anywhere that addresses the question of aircraft that were originally eligible, then modified to a non-eligible state, then reverted back. Unless I'm missing something, it seems whether those aircraft satisfy the "since its original certification" verbiage is still up for interpretation?

Interesting. So if you have an eligible J model, it might be best to hold off for a while. 

Funny enough, the 2900# GW was a major consideration when I was looking for a J, but I’ve never bothered to have the SL compliance done. I just don’t fill the seats that often, so it’s been a non-issue. 

[toto]

@Moondoggy, don’t take this the wrong way - but you sound a lot like an AI chatbot. Since I can’t imagine that a sentient chatbot is spending its time hanging out on MooneySpace, I assume you’re a human … but are you running your posts through ChatGPT or something?

[mhrivnak]

On 8/27/2025 at 6:17 PM, toto said:

The GW change is basically just a rudder weight check and a flight manual supplement. It’s not an STC and it involves no changes to the aircraft.

Just to emphasize what someone else mentioned, the GW change requires re-marking or replacing the airspeed indicator. Digital ASI makes this a lot easier. If you look at SL 92-1, you'll see that the kits they originally sold to accomplish the change included a new ASI.

On mine, the bottom of the white arc went from 54 KIAS to 58, and the bottom of the green arc went from 58 KIAS to 62.

[Moondoggy]

Toto,

Sorry for my formal writing style. It’s a habit of writing academically and for the military over the last 35 years. My day job requires precision communication in all forms. Also, my team would rib me for any grammatical errors I present to them in written form. Integrity first, so plagiarizing an AI bot’s product is poor form. My wife sometimes tells me I am exhosting to talk to because a thesaurus is required to know what I am saying. It’s hard to turn off

TangoTango,

The devil is in the details, you could interpret, “Since its original certification” to mean exactly that and then allow Sport Pilots to operate an airplane that doesn't have a VS1 of 59 KCAS when loaded above 2740 LBS. But I feel that the intent of the final rule is to reduce the kinetic effect to people and property on the ground should a, less trained/experienced or unhealthy, Sport Pilot crash on takeoff. I believe pages 109, 232, 236, 263, 264, and 684 of the final rule clarifies the FAA’s intent for the speed limitation which drives the takeoff weight for a given airfoil down.

-Cheers

[midlifeflyer]

13 hours ago, TangoTango said:

However, I can't find anywhere that addresses the question of aircraft that were originally eligible, then modified to a non-eligible state, then reverted back. Unless I'm missing something, it seems whether those aircraft satisfy the "since its original certification" verbiage is still up for interpretation?

I have not seen an official interpretation. It was an issue faced by an Ercoupe owner I knew under the pre-MOSAIC weight limitation rules. The pilot was told it was OK, but it was informal from some rep, so whether it represents official policy or not is something I don’t know. 

[toto]

7 hours ago, mhrivnak said:

Just to emphasize what someone else mentioned, the GW change requires re-marking or replacing the airspeed indicator. Digital ASI makes this a lot easier. If you look at SL 92-1, you'll see that the kits they originally sold to accomplish the change included a new ASI.

On mine, the bottom of the white arc went from 54 KIAS to 58, and the bottom of the green arc went from 58 KIAS to 62.

Yeah, the ASI thing has always been interesting to me. The SL actually says nothing about remarking - it’s explicit that you have to buy the kit that includes a new ASI. But anecdotally it seems everyone has the ASI remarked. My panel is a G3X, so it’s a few quick turns of a configuration knob, and reverting the change would be a few more turns. 

SL92-1_SN24_1686-2999.pdf

[Paul Thomas]

On 8/26/2025 at 7:25 PM, 1980Mooney said:

Here is a 1986 M20J POH.  Mysteriously the VS1 is lower at 61 KIAS

My POH, issued September of 1983 has the same table. My J is one of the first to roll of the line for 1984.

[Yetti]

I have worked 4 accident in 2 months on this one little section of a FM road.   My faith in drivers continues to erode.

This one is the easiest sections of straight Farm to Market road.  rise up a hill big fields on either side.   

 

So some people should not drive and some people should not fly airplanes.

Like Mike Rowe says If you want to see why following your passion is bad advice just watch some of the Want to be a Star shows.    Just because it is your passion, does not mean you have the talent. 

Bonus round.   Not the drivers fault.   Truck got hit by lightening.   shorted out some of the computers.   guess F150s are not hardened.

[Moondoggy]

Mooniacs,

Thank you for your comments and participation in this thread! Your contributions were informative, and a consensus has emerged that provides an answer to the question posed at the beginning. In sum, pilots may serve as pilot in command of Mooney M-20s while exercising Sport Pilot privileges under the new MOSAIC final rule, provided the airplane's originally certificated maximum takeoff gross weight doesn't exceed 2,740LBS. 

-Cheers

[Pinecone]

On 8/30/2025 at 10:34 PM, Yetti said:

I have worked 4 accident in 2 months on this one little section of a FM road.   My faith in drivers continues to erode.

This one is the easiest sections of straight Farm to Market road.  rise up a hill big fields on either side.   

So some people should not drive and some people should not fly airplanes.

Like Mike Rowe says If you want to see why following your passion is bad advice just watch some of the Want to be a Star shows.    Just because it is your passion, does not mean you have the talent. 

Bonus round.   Not the drivers fault.   Truck got hit by lightening.   shorted out some of the computers.   guess F150s are not hardened.

 

We don't teach people how to drive in the US.  

I used to teach performance driving at the track.  It is EYE OPENING.

[Yetti]

6 hours ago, Pinecone said:

We don't teach people how to drive in the US.  

I used to teach performance driving at the track.  It is EYE OPENING.

You can say that again.   I have to drive this same section of highway to get home after working the accidents.    I have made it 4 times so far this weekend.   Continue pray for me. 

[Pinecone]

Especially curves.  Almost every car I follow on an exit ramp does the exact bassakward thing.  For a right turn, the start at the right edge, mid turn are at the left edge, and then back to the right edge.

Watch any racing on TV and they are left at the entrance, right up to the right mid turn and then wide left at the exit  Fastest and safest as it allows options.

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Especially curves.  Almost every car I follow on an exit ramp does the exact bassakward thing.  For a right turn, the start at the right edge, mid turn are at the left edge, and then back to the right edge.

Watch any racing on TV and they are left at the entrance, right up to the right mid turn and then wide left at the exit  Fastest and safest as it allows options.

You are correct. Also brake before the curve, cosst to the midpoint and accelerate out of the curve. 

Smooth, efficient operation of your car and your Mooney is all about managing energy. 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Watch any racing on TV and they are left at the entrance, right up to the right mid turn and then wide left at the exit  Fastest and safest as it allows options.

Simple curve, chicane, whatever -- the objective is to maximize radius.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Simple curve, chicane, whatever -- the objective is to maximize radius.

Use all of the track!   You paid for it! 

This is so deep in my brain I apply it to flying such that keeping the airplane on the runway centerline is my lowest priority on takeoff or landing.   There's pavement there, I can use it. 

[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

Use all of the track!   You paid for it! 

This is so deep in my brain I apply it to flying such that keeping the airplane on the runway centerline is my lowest priority on takeoff or landing.   There's pavement there, I can use it. 

I have also observed that some pilots exhibit similar behaviors in their cars on the streets -- they don't seem to obsess about staying centered in a lane.

[Yetti]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Especially curves.  Almost every car I follow on an exit ramp does the exact bassakward thing.  For a right turn, the start at the right edge, mid turn are at the left edge, and then back to the right edge.

Watch any racing on TV and they are left at the entrance, right up to the right mid turn and then wide left at the exit  Fastest and safest as it allows options.

Do all your braking before the corner. Apex the corner.    The reason you accelerate out of the turn is to use engine torque to stand up the suspension.    Now do it in a fire truck.    

[EricJ]

49 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Do all your braking before the corner. 

That's the European racing school method.   You can beat them by trail braking into the corner, although I don't think I'd advise that in a fire truck except as a last-ditch measure. 

 

[Yetti]

14 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That's the European racing school method.   You can beat them by trail braking into the corner, although I don't think I'd advise that in a fire truck except as a last-ditch measure. 

 

I learned big things air brakes in college driving the campus buses.     There is an initial slow to make sure you still have brakes.   The fun days with the fire truck  are the driving course days.   I pretty much have the go pedal on the floor most of the time.  The key is when the rear tire passes the cone.  going forwards or backwards. The steering wheel needs to be moving fast.   They should figure it out when I tell everyone to strap in.