PC Control System Troubleshooting

[HRM]

Quote: Flybeech21

I just checked the Mooney Type Certificate and there is no mention of a PC control system or of Brittain.  That is pretty weird when the airplane was originally equiped with this system.

[mooneygirl]

I have PC in my 65E.  I just press the button when I take off, land, or turn.  I have never really understood why folks would want to take out the button or put a rubber band on it.  It is second nature for me to press the button.  Flying from the right...isn't very hard at all to overcome the PC. Just my two cents.

[georgeb]

Quote: mooneygirl

I have PC in my 65E.  I just press the button when I take off, land, or turn.  I have never really understood why folks would want to take out the button or put a rubber band on it.  It is second nature for me to press the button.  Flying from the right...isn't very hard at all to overcome the PC. Just my two cents.

[mjc]

Quote: Flybeech21

I have no doubt that the system is original from the factory.  It is just strange to me why it wouldnt be included on the original type certificate.

[Seth]

I'm not trying to disagree with anyone on this board, but I again spoke with the guys at my MSC, Freeway Aviation, and they again said not to pull out the button all the way as it can cause wear, and then the ring around the button may need replacement over time.  If you rarely pull the button out (and only do that partway, don't take it out all the way), then it shouldn't wear too quickly.  However, if you are doing it every flight, it may become a problem over time (and its an expensive fix eveidently - the whole assembly, not just the ring).

I keep the rubber band around for heavy crosswind taxing (otherwise it gets annoying to hold down the button the entire taxi, especially at class C and B airports) and when I let passengers manipulate the controls.  Sometimes I don't even use the rubber band on takeoffs and landings, but usally I do (for radio transmission purposes, and a faster lighter feel - the disconnect button takes a second or two to engage once pressed).  And, when over time my rubber bands snap and I don't have them to use, I just push the button.

George - Let me know how the autopilot install, costs and such, which system you decide to install, etc . . ., as I plan to install a system in eight months when I'm off the waiting list at Brittain.

-Seth

[Flybeech21]

Ok.  PC system came via UPS today.  Final bill was a little more than the quote.  $805.92..   Still not bad at all for a total system overhaul.  Installed everything and ops checked good.  No adjustments required.

Awesome...

[airkraft]

Flybeech, 

What exactly is included in " all the PC components" that you had overhauled?

[Flybeech21]

Quote: airkraft

Flybeech, 

What exactly is included in " all the PC components" that you had overhauled?

[N6843N]

My PC works flawlessly so I have never had to mess with it. Add me to the list of people that disable it on local flights and TO/landings. I have removed it and used rubberbands. The best rubberband I had was real wide and it came from the produce section of the local grocery store.

[g1td]

I have a 1966 c model I bought a year ago when I first started flying the plane the PC seemed to kinda of work. But over the last year it pretty much quit. After reading other posts on this website I thought it would be worth looking into having it repaired. Before I was going to hand over some cash I thought I should check out the system myself. The first thing that caught my attention was the grey line going into the yoke had fallen off and upon further inspection the other two lines comming out of the yoke had been tie wrapped to a tube under the instrument panel and these line were kind of squeezed so I removed the tie wraps and hooked up the disconected line and the system now operates properly. Even better than when I purchased the aircraft. The tip that worked about the crushed lines was found on this website.

[MooneyMitch]

Speaking of PC Wing Leveler systems..............just wanted to share my thoughts on the value of this simple system.  On Saturday our flight in the E model through some moderate turbulence [for about 1 hour or so], it was quite nice having the system do its job.   Mostly the wings stayed level.  When they did dip either way, the PC system brought them right back to level flight.   What a great idea those Mooney engineers had at that time.   Unique I believe.

 

 

[byrdflyr]

This is an exciting subject. I've owned my M 66 C model for 3 years and have logged about 220 hours. The positive control system never worked, and the step is wired in retract position all the time.  I know that's two issues, but as both are vacuum operated, I thought they might be inter-linked. I have two questions.

I'm in mid-annual right now, so it would be relatively easy to take out the p-c system components (rubber is obviously torn in places) and send them to Brittan for repair, and re-installation; or, just get rid of all of the p-c stuff and install a single-axis a/p?

Also, will repair of the wing-leveler vacuum enable the retractable step?

[N6843N]

I love my PC on trips. I hate it in the pattern and on local flights. I myself would look into a newer auto pilot if I could. My plane was certified with the PC  so I am kind of stuck with it.  I currently just disable it when I need to.

[flight2000]

Quote: N6843N

I love my PC on trips. I hate it in the pattern and on local flights. I myself would look into a newer auto pilot if I could. My plane was certified with the PC  so I am kind of stuck with it.  I currently just disable it when I need to.

[HRM]

Quote: byrdflyr

This is an exciting subject. I've owned my M 66 C model for 3 years and have logged about 220 hours. The positive control system never worked, and the step is wired in retract position all the time.  I know that's two issues, but as both are vacuum operated, I thought they might be inter-linked. I have two questions.

I'm in mid-annual right now, so it would be relatively easy to take out the p-c system components (rubber is obviously torn in places) and send them to Brittan for repair, and re-installation; or, just get rid of all of the p-c stuff and install a single-axis a/p?

Also, will repair of the wing-leveler vacuum enable the retractable step?

[N6843N]

Read note 1 of the TCD. If it is included on the equptment list when the aircraft was manufactured, then in theory it has to work. An IA is certifying your aircraft matches the TCD and is in a safe or airworthy condition when it is placed back in service after the annual inspection. A form 337 is used to modify the TCD either by removing or adding equiptment. Another note is most "C"s have the battery located  firewall forward so you will need to look in the aft avioncs compartment for a step servo.

[N6843N]

As you can see in the pic, Item 607 makes it part of the installed equiptment.

[flight2000]

I agree that it's part of the installed listing as shown, but that is for the weight and balance of the aircraft.  As an example, item 608 is full fuel, but we all know that we adjust the fuel levels to meet our needs.  No issues with the 337 to remove or add items from the list although I'm not 100% sure if avionics fall into this category.  I'll see what is generated once my aircraft comes out of the shop with the Garmin 430W installed.  Might be nothing more than a weight and balance adjustment with annotated log entires by the avionics shop.

The minimum equipment listing (MEL) for the aircraft and wether it is on there is the real question.  If it is, then the aircraft is not legal to fly if its not functioning.  If it's not listed on the MEL, then you can fly with a non functioning PC.

Brian

[N6843N]

The list is labeled "Equiptment list and corrected weight data" and is original to the aircraft. I also have a copy of the drawing listed and it is titled "Modifications to flight control system" and references my serial number. I have to believe the FAA would consider it required equiptment. That being said I don't go fly every airplane I annual to make sure everything works so you could have a non-op system and unless you remove something obvious, I.E. the override button no one is going to know. 

[Flybeech21]

The PC control system is not required equipment for certification.  It is not specificly mentioned in the TCD and nowhere in the POH does it state that it is required equipment for flight. 

The Mooney 20C that I own doesnt have an MEL.  Required equipment is found in 91.205.  91.213 outliness how to fly legally with inoperative equipment not required by 91.205.  That is what is relavant in the case of this thread.  Note 1 in the TCD is referring to Weight and balance data.  It is not saying that everything that was installed when new must be operating for every flight therafter.  An updated and accurate weight and balance covers Note 1.

[Guest Anonymous]

Quote: Flybeech21

The PC control system is not required equipment for certification.  It is not specificly mentioned in the TCD and nowhere in the POH does it state that it is required equipment for flight. 

The Mooney 20C that I own doesnt have an MEL.  Required equipment is found in 91.205.  91.213 outliness how to fly legally with inoperative equipment not required by 91.205.  That is what is relavant in the case of this thread.  Note 1 in the TCD is referring to Weight and balance data.  It is not saying that everything that was installed when new must be operating for every flight therafter.  An updated and accurate weight and balance covers Note 1.

[Ron McBride]

In my 69F when the PC was still installed, A previous owner had installed 2 Pilot Yokes. The PC disconect worked from either seat. If I remember corectly, they put a Y connection in the Disconect line for the 2nd Yoke.

Ron

9154V

[scottfromiowa]

I had a functioning Brittain PC wing leveler on my 1966 M20E...until my Horizon crashed and I had it replaced.  After the replacement the plane had a strong pitch to the right that could NOT be trimmed out with yoke adjustment.  I had my pilot panel replaced/upgraded and installers found two vacuum lines that were completely loose from the fittings...They replaced, so I might again have a functioning PC system.  In the mean time I purchased a pair of old style 201 yokes and control column's used.  The pilot side had a toggle switch marked PC.  I am guessing that he also had the panel cut off as well as the electric switch installed.  I would like to do this with my system too.  I plan to have the Accu-Trac installed by Brittain.  Anyone have one in use with the GPS heading function?  Does the plane really stay wings level incrosswinds with ball centered as advertised?  Having upgraded yokes and functioning PC with heading trac would really be a nice "poor man's" auto-pilot for my bird.

[Barry]

I just flew my new (to me) plane back from San Antonio two weekends ago. I coupled the Brittan Nav2B to the 430 and it worked beautifully. I tried the heading, track and capture functions and all worked as they should with the newer equipment.

[Flybeech21]

Quote: Flybeech21

The PC control system is not required equipment for certification.  It is not specificly mentioned in the TCD and nowhere in the POH does it state that it is required equipment for flight. 

The Mooney 20C that I own doesnt have an MEL.  Required equipment is found in 91.205.  91.213 outliness how to fly legally with inoperative equipment not required by 91.205.  That is what is relavant in the case of this thread.  Note 1 in the TCD is referring to Weight and balance data.  It is not saying that everything that was installed when new must be operating for every flight therafter.  An updated and accurate weight and balance covers Note 1.