Weight loss plan

[N601RX]

The full length rudder one of the bigger changes between these. 

[jetdriven]

Nope, full length rudder didnt come until 1967.  The B had a different floor pan, heavier guage aluminum on the fuselage and tail, among other things.

[tlandrum]

[KSMooniac]

30 grown adults at 200 lbs each is only 6000 lbs, or barely over 2 G's at gross weight.... granted the adult load is negative G's, but still within the required certification standards.  Basically, it looks much more impressive than it really is.  Yes, Mooneys are pretty much hell-for-stout or built like a brick excrement-house, but there ARE differences between the models and thus the gross weights.  Skin gages, tube gages, control surface configurations, landing gear tubes, etc. all feed into the gross weight and V-speed certifications.  

[stevesm20b]

I don't understand how heavier gauge aluminum would make a plane have a lower gross weight. If the B and C model were the same gross weight, I could see the B model having a lower useful load because of the heavier airframe. But still don't understand why an airplane with thiner gauge aluminum skin would would be certified with a higher gross weight. I would think the thicker aluminum would make it stronger and be able to carry more weight. I mean if you build two identical airplanes and use the same engine with the same horse power, I would think the one built with heavier gauge aluminum would be stronger and have a higher gross weight. 

[Skybrd]

Quote: stevesm20b

I don't understand how heavier gauge aluminum would make a plane have a lower gross weight. If the B and C model were the same gross weight, I could see the B model having a lower useful load because of the heavier airframe. But still don't understand why an airplane with thiner gauge aluminum skin would would be certified with a higher gross weight. I would think the thicker aluminum would make it stronger and be able to carry more weight. I mean if you build two identical airplanes and use the same engine with the same horse power, I would think the one built with heavier gauge aluminum would be stronger and have a higher gross weight. 

[jwilkins]

When I bought my first Mooney, a 62 C, it had every power wire ever used still in the plane and some old remote radios still in the tail, as well as an inop ADF. We took out almost 15 pounds of unused wiring, plus the ADF and unused remote radio stuff in the tail. It also had a three blade prop, which could have been swapped out to get that weight back. The net 'book' W&B reduction was only around 20 pounds for the radio equipment which was in the logbooks, but we picked up closer to 40 when we weighed it.  For an older plane the progressive calculated W&B has a lot of error creep, but most of us are afraid it would add to the empty weight to get a proper weighing.

I have been told that our 100LL weighs around 5.8/ gallon, not 6, so you pick up around 10 pounds with 48 gallon tanks.

The biggest factor which I have control over, other than my own weight and amount of fuel on board, is baggage. On a long cross country moving from Upstate NY to Arizona, I weighed every bag, box, and gear bag going in the plane. I had about 40 pounds of cabin cover, extra oil, tools, emergency gear, back up radios, spare headsets, flashlights, and first aid kits. I like having my gear, but, if I sat down and though about what I really needed, eliminated the triplicates, limiting myself to duplicates, and substituted lighter weight gear, I think I could cut this in half with no loss of utility. The same goes for personal gear trip packing. If you have ever done any backpacking you know you can do a week in the wilderness with a 45 pound pack, including food. I don't really need 40 pounds of clothes, business,and personal gear for 3 days in CA. 

It's an endless discussion, but the only way to know for sure is to see what is in the plane that could be removed, and get it weighed.  After that, you can make a lot of decisions about what you put through the doors into the plane. A friend of mine tells his wife "They have stores in (destination). If there is anything you need, you can go buy it" It's the trip home for which he has to carefully calculate W&B, and sometimes ship a package home.

Having said all that, if your mission is to carry four 190 pound guys and  fishing gear, you probably need a different aircraft.

 

 

 

[M20F]

You have a W&B sheet in airplane that says X, you weigh the airplane and it says X+200. Why people argue that because the slip of paper says X they are legal/safe is beyond me.  The paper doesn't matter, only the scale weight does.  

[tlandrum]

OK, so on the other side of that coin you have a plane which weighs X... for 40 years your have been flying it on the assumption that it weighs X, you often fly it at it's max gross.... so why do you now say that some scales are right and u need to take 3 hours of fuel out of your tanks now? 40 years of flying say one thing.... why are you going against 40 years of flying. Margin you say... well call your useful load 250 lb and now you have only an hours worth of gas to worry about when you crash. I'm not saying fly unsafe, and im not saying skirt the rules... they r there for your and all of our protection... but 40 years of sucess is hard to argue with. Should you take that into account next cross country... sure, along with the temperature, runway, clouds, pressure, TBO, due point, fuel burn.... but isnt that why we fly?

Fly safe, it's good for us all.

[Lood]

In my specific case, my Mooney was indeed re-painted in 2007, but it was only weighed after being painted. My concern now is not whether my Mooney can still pick up a usefull load of 1040lbs. No matter how it is configured between fuel, people and bags, I KNOW it can because I flew it like that for the last four years, with ease. However, the new weighing sheet says it now has a useful load of only 967lbs and the only reason I have to adhere to that is because of insurance issues. Should anything happen during any flight, and even though it might not have anything to do with the weight carried, the insurance companies will have a ball when it comes to light that the weight stipulated on the weight & balance sheet was exceeded. The report will sinply say that the fact that "the airplane was also overloaded" was a contributing factor.

I did schedule another weighing session though where I will be present to see for myself. If my Mooney does indeed weigh in at the latest 1773lbs empty, that will really be a rather sad day for me, because then we as a family have reached the point where we're going to outgrow the Mooney within the next year.

[PTK]

I don't see the point of this discussion. Seems to me there shouldn't even be a discussion on an accurate W&B. If one chooses to weigh the airplane then it is what it is. The new weight supercedes all previous in the logs and life goes on from there. If not then the utilize the existing wb in the logs. Why bother weighing now only to disregard it if you don't like it. 

Also the flying for 40 years argument is somewhat misleading. For the simple reason that the airplane may have been flying well within its wb envelope all this time. Start encroaching on the edge of the envelope with an innacurate weight and things can become potentially very unpleasant. We all know it. The NTSB is full of these. It need only happen once.

[jetdriven]

Quote: M20F

You have a W&B sheet in airplane that says X, you weigh the airplane and it says X+200. Why people argue that because the slip of paper says X they are legal/safe is beyond me.  The paper doesn't matter, only the scale weight does.  

[jetdriven]

Quote: allsmiles

I don't see the point of this discussion. Seems to me there shouldn't even be a discussion on an accurate W&B. If one chooses to weigh the airplane then it is what it is. The new weight supercedes all previous in the logs and life goes on from there. If not then the utilize the existing wb in the logs. Why bother weighing now only to disregard it if you don't like it. 

Also the flying for 40 years argument is somewhat misleading. For the simple reason that the airplane may have been flying well within its wb envelope all this time. Start encroaching on the edge of the envelope with an innacurate weight and things can become potentially very unpleasant. We all know it. The NTSB is full of these. It need only happen once.

[Lood]

Unfortunately, weighing is required here in South Africa, as mentioned earlier. Every five years or everytime the airplane is re-painted, have received a new interior and so on. That's my only reason for wanting to have it re-weighed in the next couple of months. I don't want to wait 5 years just to find out that the last weight was actually incorrect for some or other reason. I fly with my whole family and bags quite often and I want to utilize all the available usefull load. To do that and to fly my airplane at MAUW from higher airfields and DA's with peace of mind, I need to be 100% sure about its empty weight.

[PTK]

Quote: jetdriven

Ever ride on an airliner?  Estimated weights.  I had an FAA inspector ramp me on the CRJ-900 a few times. one day, we figured out the W+B down to about 30 pounds less than max gross takeoff weight, and that included the 500 LB taxi burnoff. On an aircraft that weighs 82,500 LB.  Its all on paper. Estimated weights, 30 LB for bags, 170 LB for men, 150 LB for women, 80 LB for childred, lap children don't count. Carryons don't count.  Catering doesn't count. Blue juice full in the toilet doesnt count.   The fed asked me "Do you think this aircraft is overweight?".  I replied I was certain it was.  And that the FAA approved our carry-on baggage program as well as the estimated weights.  He was welcome to either bump a passenger and ride, or get off, we were leaving Eugene in 5 minutes one way or the other. And we did. Without the Fed.

Polnt is, what is legal is legal.  If you roll your plane on the scales and don't like what you see, roll it off.  If you do, follow the procedures in the maintanence manual and POH, and re-weight the thing It takes an A&P to re-weigh it anyways. I am not an A&P, and I see no law prohibiting me from setting the plane on a scale either.   If you are concerned about the wings falling off, re-weigh it every 30 days.  Take a bus.  Buy a boat.  But don't tell me I am dangerous or illegal for not doing so. It is not required.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: Piloto

I think you are going to be better off loosing weight yourself than your plane. A hip replacement is going to cost you more than any work on your plane to loose weight. Think about it, you loose 50 pounds and everybody will notice. Your plane loose 50 pounds and nobody will notice.

José 

[Wildhorsesracing]

I found wiring behind the panels in my restoration that were simply left behind by a lazy avionics shop. 

[Oscar Avalle]

That is exactly what I am finding out right now. I am changing all the wires for my new avionics suite and there are tons of old wires and installations that were simply left behind. I don't know how much weight I am going to loose... but at least it looks neater.

[SkyPilot]

Quote: Lood

 

My Mooney gained 73lbs in empty weight! Seriously though, I'm pretty sure that it must be a scale or weighing error and I plan to have the airplane re-weighed at some stage while I'm present. I want to be sure that absolutely all fuel was drained and everything inside was indeed removed. My Mooney's empty weight was 1700lbs in 2007 after which I did the weight saving. It was again weighed this year in February and the new empty weight is now 1773lbs. To say the least, I didn't find that very entertaining.