Insurance Requirements

[summitdawg]

I am in a non-equity flying club at 9D9 (Hastings, MI) that has two planes, a Warrior and an M20F.  The Mooney was purchased last year and I've been able to get 5-6 hours in it.  I've been told the insurance company requires 10 hours of "dual" before I can solo in it.  I was signed off with my complex after about 3 hours, but I've continued taking along the CFI so that I can build time toward the 10.  The CFI mentioned that I could fly as safety pilot to some of the other members who are already "signed off" when they are under the hood, to round out the rest of the 10 hours.  This doesn't make sense to me because I would think that I would need to have 10 hours of dual with a CFI.

If that is the case, then I should be able to fly with another club member who could sit in the right seat, who would be "legal PIC" per the insurance company's requirements, while I was PIC as "sole maniuplator of the controls" to build my time.  When I pose that question, he doesn't have a good answer.  It would definitely be cheaper than taking along the CFI every time.

I asked the same question to the owner of the club and he was going to run it by the insurance company for clarification.  Anybody else run into this before?  Parker?

BTW, after flying in the Mooney, all I can do is dream about owning one someday.....that thing is a blast!!

Thanks,

Heath

[GaryP1007]

I would love to find a club or partner near me that has a Mooney.....even without flying one regularly, all I can do is dream about owning one someday!

[mooneygirl]

I needed ten hours of dual and ten hours of solo-no passenger for my insurance in the Mooney initially. I used the time with the CFI to do quite a bit of emergency procedures and some work under the hood. Money well spent in my opinion.

[jeckford]

I had to have 10 hrs of Dual and 10 hrs of Solo for insurance.  I would recommend getting the most you can out of your 10 hrs of dual as Jolie mentioned.  You are not going to learn as much about the plane sitting in the right seat watching someone else.  You will learn something...I still enjoy being a safety pilot for my other group members, but not as much as if you are flying yourself.

[N33GG]

Dreaming of how to own a Mooney, and trying to figure out how to not have to pay a CFI for a few very valuable hours of his/her time, and enjoy their associated liability, wisdom, experience, judgement, and skills.  Does anybody else perceive a flaw in attitude or judgement here?  Good grief!

[jacobwall]

If you're acting as safety pilot, at least under my insurance policy for our Mooney, Chartis (AIG) will *not* cover an accident. Chartis explained in order for me to have my flight insured is if I have a safety pilot (or CFI) that meets the open pilot requirement or gets approved by Chartis on a case-by-case basis. 

 

Quote: jeckford

I had to have 10 hrs of Dual and 10 hrs of Solo for insurance.  I would recommend getting the most you can out of your 10 hrs of dual as Jolie mentioned.  You are not going to learn as much about the plane sitting in the right seat watching someone else.  You will learn something...I still enjoy being a safety pilot for my other group members, but not as much as if you are flying yourself.

I cannot agree more. I wanted to get my insurance checkout as soon as possible, by the time I got it done it was around two months after I bought into the partnership. Issues between my availability, my CFI's, and weather made it hard to get done. It was frustrating for sure when I knew I understood the airplane, at least the basics of keeping the shiny side up and the greasy side down and yet my CFI (which so happened to be a DPE but I didn't know that until I was nearly done with my checkout). However, now that I have flown over sixty hours, I am glad that my CFI took the extra time to go over EP's, engrained many good habits, and have helped me make my sixty hours uneventful for the most part. 

Take the extra time to master the aircraft, we all want to be able to fly ASAP, but if you can just remind yourself that the extra time will be time well spent and potentially save yours and your passengers life, it should be a no brainer to just spend the extra time. 

[summitdawg]

Quote: N6719N

Dreaming of how to own a Mooney, and trying to figure out how to not have to pay a CFI for a few very valuable hours of his/her time, and enjoy their associated liability, wisdom, experience, judgement, and skills.  Does anybody else perceive a flaw in attitude or judgement here?  Good grief!

[summitdawg]

I'm thinking the answer is going to be dual time from a CFI for both scenarios.  Which is fine, because that is what I probably would have done anyway.  I agree, the time with the CFI is "cheap" insurance and is ulitmately more valuable.....I was just looking for some clarification. 

 

[kerry]

You could purchase AOPA renters insurance.  I belive it covers any aircraft up to 6 seats, single engine under 750 hp. 

[Hank]

Quote: N6719N

Dreaming of how to own a Mooney, and trying to figure out how to not have to pay a CFI for a few very valuable hours of his/her time, and enjoy their associated liability, wisdom, experience, judgement, and skills.  Does anybody else perceive a flaw in attitude or judgement here?  Good grief!

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: kerry

You could purchase AOPA renters insurance.  I belive it covers any aircraft up to 6 seats, single engine under 750 hp. 

[Becca]

Quote: kerry

You could purchase AOPA renters insurance.  I belive it covers any aircraft up to 6 seats, single engine under 750 hp. 

[gregwatts]

Quote: summitdawg

I am in a non-equity flying club at 9D9 (Hastings, MI) that has two planes, a Warrior and an M20F. The Mooney was purchased last year and I've been able to get 5-6 hours in it. I've been told the insurance company requires 10 hours of "dual" before I can solo in it. I was signed off with my complex after about 3 hours, but I've continued taking along the CFI so that I can build time toward the 10. The CFI mentioned that I could fly as safety pilot to some of the other members who are already "signed off" when they are under the hood, to round out the rest of the 10 hours. This doesn't make sense to me because I would think that I would need to have 10 hours of dual with a CFI.

If that is the case, then I should be able to fly with another club member who could sit in the right seat, who would be "legal PIC" per the insurance company's requirements, while I was PIC as "sole maniuplator of the controls" to build my time. When I pose that question, he doesn't have a good answer. It would definitely be cheaper than taking along the CFI every time.

I asked the same question to the owner of the club and he was going to run it by the insurance company for clarification. Anybody else run into this before? Parker?

BTW, after flying in the Mooney, all I can do is dream about owning one someday.....that thing is a blast!!

Thanks,

Heath

[Cruiser]

I am not an insurance agent, nor do I have insight from the insurance industry. 

I have always viewed the 10 hrs dual as protection for the insurance company providing the coverage. They want to reduce the risk of a pilot jumping into a new to them airplane and flying off to do something stupid because they were not familiar with the aircraft systems. The 10 hrs dual allows the pilot to become comfortable operating the specific controls and equipement and following the aircraft specific procedures while under the guidance of a knowledgeable professional thereby reducing the risk to the insurance company. IF you log safety pilot hours you are not flying the aircraft and cannot gain the experience the 10 hrs dual is probably intended to provide.

Do the 10 hrs. and take advantage of the opportunity to explore the various configurations of a Mooney and develop some standard routines for yourself ........ like when do I put the gear down? Did I check the gear was down? How can I be sure I didn't forget to put the gear down. etc....... 

[DrBill]

I too had the requirement for 10 hrs dual, 10 hrs solo before passengers and I'm glad I did. I used the dual to learn all the avionics and each flight was a mulit destination at least 2 landings before returning. The last one was all flown by hand, now A/P.  Each had at least one IFR approach.  My solo time was 4  2.5 hour flights.  Multiple airports that I had never been before. Was great to practice slowing down for approach. By the end of the 20, I felt I was ready.

Bill

 

[gsengle]

Quote: summitdawg

Thanks for your input.....I'll reconsider the idea of getting into a Mooney.  It's obviously not for someone with my judgement or attitude.

 

[fantom]

Quote: gsengle

C'mon - I get enough sarcasm elsewhere.  I tend to stay out of flame wars, but lets all keep some humility here?  Its a good point about a possible flaw in attitude or judgement.  The defensiveness is a bit much.

[jetdriven]

or asking "whats the best deal on an early 201", "how do I lean my engine out properly", or "My instructor says climb at 25 square", etc

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: jetdriven

"My instructor says climb at 25 square", etc

 

[Hank]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

[jetdriven]

Full throttle static RPM for the 172R is 2,065-2,165.  That is regulatory, per the 2A12 TCDS.  So, 29" of MP.  Redline is 2400 RPM.  Of course, you do a prop and tach change, the redline magically becomes 2,700 RPM.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: jetdriven

Full throttle static RPM for the 172R is 2,065-2,165.  That is regulatory, per the 2A12 TCDS.  So, 29" of MP.  Redline is 2400 RPM.  Of course, you do a prop and tach change, the redline magically becomes 2,700 RPM.