First annual, how to schedule?

[Hank]

My annuals come in around 20 hours. I'll have tincheck the papers where I just picked it up, but had to do some extra work, too.

[Fly Boomer]

On 3/26/2025 at 2:49 PM, Thedude said:

What should I bring? I have my logs digitized from the sale, I assume that should be sufficient?

As others have said above, don't hand your logs to anyone.  I wouldn't even give them to someone to scan.  When I bought my airplane, I immediately scanned every piece of paper that came with it.  I was fortunate to receive all the logs clear back to the factory.  It used to be fashionable to staple supporting documents into the log pages.  I removed each staple, scanned every page and every supporting document, and put it back together just as I received it.  The only person who will ever lay their hands on those logs is the next owner.

[Fix]

20 hours ago, varlajo said:

Wouldn't hurt to find a place that lets you help with the annual. You get to learn a lot about your plane and save a bit of money on trivial tasks, e.g. removing and reinstalling the cowling, wheels, inspection panels, and seats, oil and filter change, gascolator and finger screen service, brake fluid top off, etc. Easily 3-4 hours of work. 

I'm doing my first annual now, and I've been at the workshop helping out best as I can.
Also I have an independent mechanic, he is very friendly and we are building a "friendship & trust" together.
With a helpful mechanic owning an aircraft is much more easy!

Last tip, open your wallet because you don't know what you will find :-)

- Propeller sent for overhaul = New Hub, 3x Bearings and repair of 2 blades (MT PROP) = $15000
- Alternator also sent for 500h inspection (Direct driven) = Need of new Drive coupling and new brushes = $2500

Hopefully no more surprises, but we are almost done.

This annual we fixed all small stuff I found or didn't like.

Repaired Fuel Sender, so I now can see how much fuel I have in left wing :-)
New - Air intake tube to engine (Old was scuffed quite badly)
Repaired JPI 701 EDM Display.
Replace one of the magnetos with a new SureFly Ignition.
New Airfilter after 500h
Repaired side wall interior from some small cracks.

 

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, Fix said:

I'm doing my first annual now, ........Last tip, open your wallet because you don't know what you will find :-)

- Propeller sent for overhaul = New Hub, 3x Bearings and repair of 2 blades (MT PROP) = $15000
- Alternator also sent for 500h inspection (Direct driven) = Need of new Drive coupling and new brushes = $2500

Hopefully no more surprises, but we are almost done.

This annual we fixed all small stuff I found or didn't like.

Repaired Fuel Sender, so I now can see how much fuel I have in left wing :-)
New - Air intake tube to engine (Old was scuffed quite badly)
Repaired JPI 701 EDM Display.
Replace one of the magnetos with a new SureFly Ignition.
New Airfilter after 500h
Repaired side wall interior from some small cracks.

Is that a typo or are you saying that a 3 blade MT prop costs $15,000 to overhaul???

Edited March 29 by 1980Mooney

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Is that a typo or are you saying that a 3 blade MT prop costs $15,000 to overhaul???

I thought that was about the price of a NEW prop!

[varlajo]

13 minutes ago, Hank said:

I thought that was about the price of a NEW prop!

Things may be different in Sweden 

[Richie the C]

The main thing to take to your annual is MONEY. I am on my 3rd Mooney and the price of every annual becomes more shockingly expensive than the last. Parts, when available, are insane. Someday you will need a little tiny part called a no-back spring. They cost more than my first new car. Oh, and bring your log books.

 

R

[Fix]

17 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Is that a typo or are you saying that a 3 blade MT prop costs $15,000 to overhaul???

Sadly not.

it was sent for overhaul, $6200.

Then it needed to be repaired for $8000

Almost same as for a new.

Problem is that MT has 36weeks delivery for a new.

 

[Thedude]

> Someday you will need a little tiny part called a no-back spring.

Oh I've read about that and am properly scared of that thing breaking.

 

> As others have said above, don't hand your logs to anyone.  I wouldn't even give them to someone to scan. 

Fortunately my logs were fully scanned before I purchased it, so it sounds like I should just keep the scans up to date and share that with the shop.

 

> Call now since it is your first and you're a new customer.  They'll probably tell you to call back, which is fine.  But get on their radar now.  And are they the shop you are currently using for oil changes and any other minor things that come up?  You want to build a reputation with the shop you're going to be using, and it works both ways.

Called on Friday and left a message, I'll try again tomorrow. I'm doing my oil change atm and I've been looking for a local shop -- I'm at KSBP if there are any recommendations, it seems the field has been making it harder and harder for shops to exist, so I'm having trouble finding someone to work with.

 

> But I'm guessing @Thedude would love a list a KNOWN good Mooney shops in the area since it looks like he may be a neighbor of your if he was thinking about Top Gun

100%

 

> If that’s the shop you want (and it’s good, but will be $$ as @MikeOH says), then you should already be on their schedule.  Good shops are busy because they’re good.  I’d seriously call tomorrow to get on their schedule if you’re sure.

Good to know.

 

> Using the Seller's recommended mechanic when you purchase can be expensive the next year. There's a reason the Seller recommends them. Have you thought about getting your annual done at the same shop that did it last year to ease the pain a little? It can take a few years to catch up on deferred maintenance and you can spread the cost out

I was hesitant to use the brokers mechanic for this reason, but at this point I was also worn out in searching and willing to trust the reputation GMAX has, so rolling the dice a bit here. To be clear though, this was not the previous owner's mechanic, it was the brokers, so they don't have much more history on the plane than anyone else I would guess -- but I think 3 annuals ago (before the one before the prebuy/annual) was at Maxwell, so they went to a couple of different shops over the years but that one was pretty thorough at least (and the logs show it).

 

> A little farther out from Stockton, but Hangtown Aviation in Placerville has done my friend’s G model the last couple years.  They did a fuselage tube repair on a J model that involved de-skinning on the pilot’s side.  It was perfect.  I wouldn’t hesitate to use them.

I know placerville, drive through there every year going to Tahoe, I'll look them up, thank you for the recommendation.

 

> FYI, @jetdriven says it takes about 34 hours to do the Mooney Annual/100hr inspection list, start to finish.   I would expect that on a first annual at a new shop and as a new owner.

Good to know.

 

> Wouldn't hurt to find a place that lets you help with the annual. You get to learn a lot about your plane and save a bit of money on trivial tasks, e.g. removing and reinstalling the cowling, wheels, inspection panels, and seats, oil and filter change, gascolator and finger screen service, brake fluid top off, etc. Easily 3-4 hours of work. 

I'd be happy with that, I'm good mechanically. I just want to find somewhere I can trust, and TopGun had a good reputation, but I don't need to go there.

 

Edit: hm, seems my way of quoting people doesn't work that well...

Edited March 30 by Thedude

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, Thedude said:

Edit: hm, seems my way of quoting people doesn't work that well...

Select the text in the original post that you want to quote, and you get a pop-up button that says "Quote selection".  The quoted text is formatted as you see here, and the forum will try to notify the person you are quoting.

[Thedude]

I got a hold of top gun and they said they build their schedule about a month before hand, giving priority to their existing customers. Didn't really sound like they do a waitlist. I have an A&P near me on field I can work with but my plane also seems to be out of rig, so looking for a Mooney specialist to get that addressed.

[201Mooniac]

3 hours ago, Thedude said:

I got a hold of top gun and they said they build their schedule about a month before hand, giving priority to their existing customers. Didn't really sound like they do a waitlist. I have an A&P near me on field I can work with but my plane also seems to be out of rig, so looking for a Mooney specialist to get that addressed.

I've been a customer at Top Gun for 30 years now but I still call at least a month before, usually two to get the exact day I want to drop it off scheduled.  If I forget to call, Rachel always sends me an email a month out.  While I schedule my start date, I've found in the last couple of years that end date scheduling is near impossible as parts availability can too easily get in the way of completing the work and you just need to be patient.  If you need rigging, definitely take it to a Mooney expert as it isn't the easiest thing to get right and I've seen a shop that wasn't familiar actually do damage trying to rig a Mooney.

[Thedude]

1 hour ago, 201Mooniac said:

I've been a customer at Top Gun for 30 years now but I still call at least a month before, usually two to get the exact day I want to drop it off scheduled.  If I forget to call, Rachel always sends me an email a month out.  While I schedule my start date, I've found in the last couple of years that end date scheduling is near impossible as parts availability can too easily get in the way of completing the work and you just need to be patient.  If you need rigging, definitely take it to a Mooney expert as it isn't the easiest thing to get right and I've seen a shop that wasn't familiar actually do damage trying to rig a Mooney.

That's good to know, my annual is needed in September, so I'm more than a couple months out, hopefully their schedule isn't too busy. Have your annuals taken excessively long or probably just as long as you'd expect anywhere else?

I'm also going to reach out to the msc in troutdale because they seem to have a good reputation and I have a leak in my left tank that would be good to patch so I can get my paint fixed (there's a recent thread somewhere on this forum talking about how happy they were with the patch work from them).

[Schllc]

On 3/30/2025 at 3:07 AM, Fix said:

Sadly not.

it was sent for overhaul, $6200.

Then it needed to be repaired for $8000

Almost same as for a new.

Problem is that MT has 36weeks delivery for a new.

 

I just bought a three blade MT prop for my plane and it was 28k shipped to me. 
it was in stock and I had it within two weeks. 

[cliffy]

Mike Bush has a very good article on how to set up an annual inspection with a shop 

and not get screwed with "extras" not needed

I suggest you find it and read it. 

NEVER just drop it off a say "fix it"

[201Mooniac]

7 hours ago, Thedude said:

That's good to know, my annual is needed in September, so I'm more than a couple months out, hopefully their schedule isn't too busy. Have your annuals taken excessively long or probably just as long as you'd expect anywhere else?

I'm also going to reach out to the msc in troutdale because they seem to have a good reputation and I have a leak in my left tank that would be good to patch so I can get my paint fixed (there's a recent thread somewhere on this forum talking about how happy they were with the patch work from them).

They don't take excessively long but I plan for three weeks these days where I used to plan for two just because of parts delays.  I've heard only good things about the shop at TTD though I've never used them.  Mark at Top Gun used to patch tanks but I think he prefers to not do them these days.

[Thedude]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

Mike Bush has a very good article on how to set up an annual inspection with a shop 

and not get screwed with "extras" not needed

I suggest you find it and read it. 

NEVER just drop it off a say "fix it"

If his article was in AOPA then I recall reading that. Makes perfect sense: "fixing" something doesn't necessarily mean it's better now, especially when it didn't have a functional issue to begin with.

[47U]

55 minutes ago, Thedude said:

f his article was in AOPA then I recall reading that.

As I remember the article, Mike Busch promotes three separate activities to accomplish the annual.  Which are not to be intermixed.  

1.  The Inspection.  And only the inspection.

2.  The List of Discrepancies, with airworthiness issues identified and projected hours to make repairs on each item.  The repairs to be accomplished are negotiated between the owner and shop.

3.  The Fix Phase.  

Savvy’s plan pretty much follows what we did when I worked Phase/Periodic Inspection on three different airframes during my career.  

Pre-phase runs; inspection/lubrication; fix phase with time changes and service bulletins; backline for out-of-dock checks/post phase runs.  

And don’t forget the FCF.

 

[cliffy]

@47U

Basically correct  

Do the Inspection ONLY

Make a list of "unairworthy" items

Make a list of items not affecting airworthiness

Do no "repair" work on either list unless specifically authorized by owner before work is commenced

"Servicing" the aircraft (oil and filter change, wheel bearings, lubrication are all authorized at commencement

of Inspection. 

This gives the  owner the opportunity to review, control  and choose which items get fixed or not,

Never just drop off the airplane and say "give me an annual and call me when it is done"

That's just an open check book with no limits on the shop. 

The "Annual Inspection" is just that- an INSPECTION  It doesn't necessarily require repairing any unairworthy items 

The Annual Inspection can be complete and signed off even though there are unairworthy items on the airplane.

The "Annual Inspection" can be signed off (without repairing any items ) as completed and saying a list of unairworthy items has been given to the aircraft owner.

It is then the aircraft owners responsibility to fix all the unairworthy  items listed before flight with any A&P of their choosing if it goes this way.

THE UNAIRWORTHY ITEMS ARE NEVER ENTERED INTO THE AIRCRAFT LOG BOOKS

It all comes down to a contract with the shop on just how and when "repair" work will done and/or authorized

so there are no huge $$$$$ surprises at the end of the process.

Owners need to take control of their own airplanes and not give carte blanc to a repair shop. 

[47U]

8 hours ago, cliffy said:

THE UNAIRWORTHY ITEMS ARE NEVER ENTERED INTO THE AIRCRAFT LOG BOOKS

I would caveat this statement with, ‘until the repair action is documented.’  And sometimes not even then!  Perhaps because the interpretation of airworthiness is so subjective?

But, I don’t like it when I can’t figure out what the discrepancy was by reading the corrective action that is documented in the logbook.  

I spent too much time in a system that prohibited aircraft maintenance from being performed until first there was a documented discrepancy.

 

[Kytulu]

On 5/27/2025 at 8:29 PM, 47U said:

I would caveat this statement with, ‘until the repair action is documented.’  And sometimes not even then!  Perhaps because the interpretation of airworthiness is so subjective?

But, I don’t like it when I can’t figure out what the discrepancy was by reading the corrective action that is documented in the logbook.  

I spent too much time in a system that prohibited aircraft maintenance from being performed until first there was a documented discrepancy.

 

The way to fix that is to write the repair action in such a way that the discrepancy is identifiable. 

For example: "Removed #1 Cyl oil return line and replaced rubber connecting line to correct oil leak. Reinstalled #1 Cyl oil return line. Performed engine run and verified no leaks present."

[47U]

54 minutes ago, Kytulu said:

The way to fix that is to write the repair action in such a way that the discrepancy is identifiable.

Which I strive to do.  Sometimes, a no-brainer.  Like when I documented that a cylinder compression check was 50/80.  Investigation revealed the exhaust valve guide was severely worn and the cylinder was sent off for overhaul.  It’s not hard to figure out that  reading 50/80 is the reason for a top overhaul of a cylinder.  (The exhaust valve guide was sloppy.  The engine shop told me the valve was close to be ‘swallowed.’). I’ve since upped my borescope game.  

And then my IA tells me I write too much in the log books.  

But, it’s better than back in the ‘60s and ‘70s.  There was a gear-up on my airplane only 6 months leaving the factory.  Nothing in the logbook, but there was a 337, which wasn’t referred to in the logbook.  Why wasn’t the 337 in the aircraft records?  The previous owner didn’t now about it, and he had the airplane for 35 years before me.  I only found it when in 2008 I ordered the history CD from the FAA. 

[Kytulu]

1 hour ago, 47U said:

Which I strive to do.  Sometimes, a no-brainer.  Like when I documented that a cylinder compression check was 50/80.  Investigation revealed the exhaust valve guide was severely worn and the cylinder was sent off for overhaul.  It’s not hard to figure out that  reading 50/80 is the reason for a top overhaul of a cylinder.  (The exhaust valve guide was sloppy.  The engine shop told me the valve was close to be ‘swallowed.’). I’ve since upped my borescope game.  

And then my IA tells me I write too much in the log books.  

But, it’s better than back in the ‘60s and ‘70s.  There was a gear-up on my airplane only 6 months leaving the factory.  Nothing in the logbook, but there was a 337, which wasn’t referred to in the logbook.  Why wasn’t the 337 in the aircraft records?  The previous owner didn’t now about it, and he had the airplane for 35 years before me.  I only found it when in 2008 I ordered the history CD from the FAA. 

50/up is an immediate "find the leak" for me. The most common is a sticking exhaust valve. The second most common is leaking piston rings.