Step removed from some mooneys?

[FlyDave]

All,

I saw a J today that didn't have a step. This is the 2nd I've seen like this - both 82-83 models. The first one had experienced a gear up and the owner said the guy that fixed it didn't put the step back in.

When I asked the owner of the plane I saw today about the lack of step he said that Mooney didn't put it on some airplanes - to gain another 2-3 knots.

I've never heard of this and am wondering if other people have.

Thanks,

[Piloto]

If you are 6'4" you probably don't need it until later on in life. Keep in mind that children and women will definetly need it. Not having it can cause an accident on your vacation trip. Or a lawsuit by a passenger falling off. Most accidents happens when stepping down. If an accident occurs you will will definetly be at fault for having removed a safety device. It is not worth it removing it. 

José

 

[The-sky-captain]

My '77 is step free. No complaints here...

[MooneyMitch]

A Cardinal Jim?  Now that is funny.   Not sure if you are kidding or not though with that reply.  Actually, the IO-360 Cardinal has been a favorite looking aircaft of mine for many, many years.  

I did remove my "baggage compartment destroyer" after my gear up on my F model way back in '89.  My step was vaccum operated.  With the engine shut down, as I was attempting to level the prop., that little monster lowered itself.  That piece of very strong aluminum did more airframe damage than any other aspect of the landing.  I elected to remove it then, just in case I ever had another gear up.

One of the worst sounds and feelings you can ever experience, is your beautiful Mooney scraping along the asphalt.  It sure did come to a gringing stop fast though!

Incidentally the situation was due to the rod end becoming disconnected from the worm gear drive off the electric motor.  Because it was a mechanical issue, I suppose I'm still in the category of "those that have, and those that will"

GUMP!!

[fantom]

I know a guy who removed the step from his 231.....gained .0000002 kts. The claim of gaining2-3 kts. just proves that the imagination of pilots kick into high gear when discussing airspeed.

Having flown a 177RG for several hundred hours, it is a very nice plane for older pilots who aren't in a hurry to get anywhere, and who don't mind paying much more (double) for annuals, than a similar Mooney would cost. Good shade under the wings, when on the ground, also.

[MooneyMitch]

Speaking of wing shade..............one really has to stoop to walk under the Cardinal wing.  Of course, there's more of a stoop to walk under the Mooney wing.........ha!

[Lood]

I have no experience on the Cardinal, but the general feeling in South Africa is that a Cardinal needs quite a lot of runway before it gets airborne. I was looking at one before I bought the Mooney when a high time pilot and friend warned me that the Cardinal might take me somewhere one day where it will not be able to get me out of. I like their look though and they seem to be quite fast.

[HRM]

Quote: JimR

I generally pick the children up and put them on the wing walk, and I give the ladies and infirmed a hand up. I do the same when flying another Mooney that is equipped with a step. When I am no longer able to do that, I will consider buying a Cardinal.

[MooneyMitch]

"...but the step is just so neat and spacecraft looking. You miss out by not having one. That said, it does have a mind of it's own and seems to come and go as it pleases."

If your step is coming and going as it pleases, then you have either a vacuum leak, a lubrication/binding issue, a cable/attachement issue or combination thereof.  The step operation is quite simple.  The concept is that it will retract with vacuum present and it will extend in the absence of vacuum.  Check the boot and vacuum line for integrity and check for smooth retraction/extention movement.  Also make sure the cable/attachments are secure. 

[HRM]

Quote: Mitch

"...but the step is just so neat and spacecraft looking. You miss out by not having one. That said, it does have a mind of it's own and seems to come and go as it pleases."

If your step is coming and going as it pleases, then you have either a vacuum leak, a lubrication/binding issue, a cable/attachement issue or combination thereof.  The step operation is quite simple.  The concept is that it will retract with vacuum present and it will extend in the absence of vacuum.  Check the boot and vacuum line for integrity and check for smooth retraction/extention movement.  Also make sure the cable/attachments are secure. 

[MooneyMitch]

Hi HRM. 

Got it, I understand what you're saying.  I don't know exactly what the extention duration is for the step after shutdown.  My guess though, is if you're out of the plane in less than 10 seconds or so, you may catch the step not fully extended, but pretty close.  If it takes longer than that to extend, you may still have a mechanical or lubrication issue with the step.  I'll check ours on the E model and report back.

I can't help it, but everytime I look at that step I am reminded of the time I wished that I had not had a step! 

[rgaines]

1. I have a 1962 model and the step is manual. I usually just leave it up at all times.

2. I see no way how removing a step could add any speed so long as you fly with the step retracted.  The weight gain by removing a step is minimal and I do not see how that could add to any measurable speed.

 

 

[FlyDave]

Quote: Mitch

I can't help it, but everytime I look at that step I am reminded of the time I wished that I had not had a step! 

[HRM]

Quote: Mitch

Hi HRM. 

Got it, I understand what you're saying.  I don't know exactly what the extention duration is for the step after shutdown.  My guess though, is if you're out of the plane in less than 10 seconds or so, you may catch the step not fully extended, but pretty close.  If it takes longer than that to extend, you may still have a mechanical or lubrication issue with the step.  I'll check ours on the E model and report back.

I can't help it, but everytime I look at that step I am reminded of the time I wished that I had not had a step! 

[MooneyMitch]

Hi Harley.

Ok, now you're talkin'.  To me the Mooney is THE most attractive airplane.  I fell in love with the LOOK way back when I was 10 years of age.  Everything you described I agree with.   Sometimes I just sit in the hangar and stare at that lovely looking machine.  To each his/her own of course.

My step.  As I stated previously, it destroyed my baggage compartment area on the gear up landing, so I have strong feelings for it in that regard.    My wife and I still have the potential for the same type of damage with a gear up landing on both planes as each one possess that DREADED STEP! ha!

Enjoy every minute of that gorgeous Mooney! 

[MooneyMitch]

Hi Dave.

I believe the step is very useful and very convenient.  I've stepped on the flap myself even with the step.  The step probably does help folks miss the flap on the way down, as they are concentration on getting their foot to land on the step.  I do find myself jumping off the wing from time to time on the way down and bypassing the step........it just depends.  Hope that helps.

[KSMooniac]

FYI, the fixed step has a big hole drilled thru the aft portion of the tube, near the intersection with the fuselage skins.  They do this so that in the event of a gear-up landing, the step will fold aft and not do any major damage to the fuselage like what happened to Mitch with the retractable step that does not have such a feature.

[fantom]

Quote: Mitch

Hi Harley.

Ok, now you're talkin'.  To me the Mooney is THE most attractive airplane.  I fell in love with the LOOK way back when I was 10 years of age.  Everything you described I agree with.   Sometimes I just sit in the hangar and stare at that lovely looking machine.  To each his/her own of course.

My step.  As I stated previously, it destroyed my baggage compartment area on the gear up landing, so I have strong feelings for it in that regard.    My wife and I still have the potential for the same type of damage with a gear up landing on both planes as each one possess that DREADED STEP! ha!

Enjoy every minute of that gorgeous Mooney! 

[mjc]

Quote: FlyDave

OK all, here's 3 more questions:

What is your preference? Do you like having the step or not?

Is is easier for you to get in and out of the plane without the step? For passengers? (I'm 5'5" and my wife is 5'2" so any short Mooney pilots out there?)

For those that don't have a step or it does not retract, do you find passengers stepping on the flap as they get in/out of the plane?

[fantom]

...also good for scraping mud off your shoes.

[kellym]

Quote: HRM

I may have mis-stated that. The vacuum in my plane is so robust that by the time vacuum bleeds off I am already out of the plane and on the ground. So, it's sort of like "Oh, there's the step". It's there when it is time to board, but it would be nice if it popped out as soon as you shut the engine down.

[231Pilot]

I really liked the retractable step on my 1967C.  It always functioned properly and I was able (through design sometimes, and through dumb luck sometimes) to keep it off the runway, so it caused no damage to the airframe.  My 1982J has the fixed step, and although it does interfere with the lines, I find it to be very convenient for both me and my wife when boarding or deplaning.  I would not remove it.

[HRM]

Quote: kellym

 

[FlyDave]

Quote: 201Pilot

I really liked the retractable step on my 1967C.  It always functioned properly and I was able (through design sometimes, and through dumb luck sometimes) to keep it off the runway, so it caused no damage to the airframe.  My 1982J has the fixed step, and although it does interfere with the lines, I find it to be very convenient for both me and my wife when boarding or deplaning.  I would not remove it.

[fantom]

Quote: JimR

.......I've read that the fixed step extracts a 1 mph speed penalty, but who knows whether that is true or not.  I personally think that the best reason not to have a step installed is the cleaner asthetics.