What 2.25" instrument would you add to this panel design?

[birdofjoy]

Hey folks, my M20J is about to go through a full panel overhaul with a dual Dynon HDX + autopilot + Avidyne systems. I already have spent the money on those so please save me from your Garmin advice on this thread as I'm past the point of no return and quite happy with my glass choice. I may still have the space for 3 2.25" round instruments on the left side of my panel, 2 of which I also already have: a clock/charger and my compass card. I have been thinking about what else I could add to that empty space on the bottom left that would add functionality/backup and won't cost me another kidney. Any suggestions?

The only one that looked interesting to me so far is a Tach/MAP backup like this one but with the dual Dynon screens, it seems pretty overkill and not worth the money. I thought about a backup turn coordinator as well but I'm hoping to upgrade my IFD 540 to an IFD 550 in the future so that would give me ARS + Synthetic Vision on a third screen. So, what would you put on my empty space?

Attaching the current panel and my current design mock. Notes on the design:

• The ignition is by the left of the red switches (the design software just didn't have the electroair ignition I'll add but they're the same size).
• One of the ELTs by the CBs is actually for my Eagle AOA (the design software just didn't have the latter to add but they're the same size).
• The gray knob by the CBs is my cigarette lighter. 

[DCarlton]

In general, I like a little space between my instruments and a little more aluminum for better access and structural integrity.  Nothing wrong with having a place for something in the future too.  Less might be more.   

[KSMooniac]

You might just add a little cubby hole for pen, batteries, whatever.  You certainly don't need any extra instrumentation there.

Are you 100% sure the compass will work in that location?  There is a lot of steel in that area and I would not imagine a compass will calibrate very well.  (I'm going through trying to calibrate my 20 year old vertical card compass in your current location but gave up and ordered a SIRS replacement.)

I also question the density of your layout and whether or not you have enough structural integrity for the panel.  I have a similar dream with Dynon and Avidyne but plan to retain my EDM-900 and only use a single PFD.  I'll be looking forward to see how yours works!

[EricJ]

I like that panel!   I'd only suggest a few things... 

If you can swing it, a PSE450B is a very good upgrade compared to the audio panel shown.

The compass really does kinda like to live on the center post, which is stainless in a J, both for visibility and alignment, accuracy, etc.

Where are your mag/start switches going to be?   The bottom left is a good spot, since it is also consistent with the legacy location.

If you use a stratux or similar box, you can also get backup AHRS in that.   I keep mine in a fixed location on the floor in the hatch so that the AHRS wakes up in a useful orientation.   Since it is fed by an independent battery that gets charged by ship's power, if I completely lose system electric power it'll still work and display on my EFB tablet if I need it.

A turn coordinator isn't a bad choice for the left side positions.   I think the most useful part of that is the inclinometer, which you can buy separately and put anywhere on the panel.

Just dos centavos from me, but I really like what you have so far.   Nicely done!   That should make for a nice panel regardless of the remaining details.

[Pinecone]

AV-20S.

You have your main AHARS and a back up.  What if they disagree?

[Paul Thomas]

Many panels are held by structure behind the panel. Have you checked that you have clearance for that design?

[Igor_U]

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^

 

On your picture you moved the GPS navigators left from the OEM location. are you sure you can support that structurally and if there's a enough clearance?  I know J has different panel then my early F but I would check twice. Good luck

[EricJ]

You'll definitely need a little re-work to make it fit as shown.   Part of the panel where the RHS display is located tilts out for the stock tach and MP, so that'll have to be sorted out to make that display sit flush.   +1 that clearance behind the panel is an issue on Mooneys due to the cage structure behind the panel.    It mostly affects things near the top, and the PSE audio panels aren't very deep, but it still might make you need to move the whole center stack down a bit.    Definitely a good start, though!

 

[jetdriven]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

AV-20S.

You have your main AHARS and a back up.  What if they disagree?

the AV20 disagrees with the natural horizon.

[Rick Junkin]

6 hours ago, birdofjoy said:

I have been thinking about what else I could add to that empty space on the bottom left that would add functionality/backup and won't cost me another kidney. Any suggestions?

Guardian CO detector https://www.guardianavionics.com/guardian-aero-451-101-panel-co-detector-certified-norsee

[spistora]

I'm working on a similar layout, for reference. I found Xpanel to not be accurate. I have to double check my panel measurements but they are pretty close.

231AF Panel r1.pdf

[LANCECASPER]

22 hours ago, birdofjoy said:

Hey folks, my M20J is about to go through a full panel overhaul with a dual Dynon HDX + autopilot + Avidyne systems. I already have spent the money on those so please save me from your Garmin advice on this thread as I'm past the point of no return and quite happy with my glass choice. I may still have the space for 3 2.25" round instruments on the left side of my panel, 2 of which I also already have: a clock/charger and my compass card. I have been thinking about what else I could add to that empty space on the bottom left that would add functionality/backup and won't cost me another kidney. Any suggestions?

The only one that looked interesting to me so far is a Tach/MAP backup like this one but with the dual Dynon screens, it seems pretty overkill and not worth the money. I thought about a backup turn coordinator as well but I'm hoping to upgrade my IFD 540 to an IFD 550 in the future so that would give me ARS + Synthetic Vision on a third screen. So, what would you put on my empty space?

Attaching the current panel and my current design mock. Notes on the design:

• The ignition is by the left of the red switches (the design software just didn't have the electroair ignition I'll add but they're the same size).
• One of the ELTs by the CBs is actually for my Eagle AOA (the design software just didn't have the latter to add but they're the same size).
• The gray knob by the CBs is my cigarette lighter. 

 

I don 't think you're going to fit all of that in there. The best person to consult would be Jesse Saint - they have done a lot of Dynon installations on Mooneys. @Jesse Saint https://saintaviation.com/

[birdofjoy]

Thanks all for the input, keep 'em coming!!!

"Less might be more" - At the moment that's where I'm leaning as well @DCarlton

@KSMooniac I'm actually hoping I'll be able to get a small "glovebox" on the bottom right somehow. We'll see how it turns out.

@Pinecone I'll have 2 ADHRS with the 2 screens + the D30 for backup + likely the IFD 550 (ARS only but should do the job) in the future, so I don't think the AV-20 would be adding much here. It's kinda the same as my Tach/MAP backup idea, basically adding a 4th/5th back up solution, so I don't think it's worth the money.

@Rick Junkin I like the CO Detector Idea, but I have a fantastic handheld that permanently lives on my plane and is part of my pre-post flight flow plus these are coming in headsets now as well.

@EricJ thanks for all the suggestions. I can't afford the PSE450B this time around but definitely keeping an eye on that for the next few years. My PSE8000B is the very first version of that radio with almost 15 years now but it's working like a charm for now. The mag/start switches are at the bottom left, just by the red switches, they were just not available in the mockup software.

For the folks worried about structure and fitting, I hear you but I'm not too worried about that atm. I'm working with @Baker Avionics on this remodel and they too have done many Mooneys, which is why I decided to go with them. We are about to get started on the actual designs which will have precise measurements instead of my mock ups here and will see if I will be able to actually keep that left column of round gauges.