Most expensive m20j I’ve seen??

[Grant_Waite]

Title says it all. Was looking at planes a few nights ago and saw this 81J for 300k!! I’m sure most of us are guilty of looking at planes, even though we are perfectly content with our own. I get the plane has well over 100k in work done recently but still. I can get a tricked out 90s long body for 300k or even a g1000 ovation. Just seems like the epitome of the saying “you’ll never get what you put into it”

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/237016605/1981-mooney-m20j-201-piston-single-aircraft?gad_source=1

[IvanP]

Nice plane, but probably not $300k nice. 

[Grant_Waite]

8 minutes ago, IvanP said:

Nice plane, but probably not $300k nice. 

It’s in need of a paint job as well. Description says they’ll take some off but still insanely priced 

[Oscar Avalle]

He put a lot of love and money into the airplane but 300,000 it is out of the market.


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[Schllc]

I wonder what ultimately happens to these planes. Remember that chartreuse one that was priced like this?  Either they end up keeping, lower the price, or someone ponies up the money I guess…

[201er]

I think it would take 0 time factory reman, new interior, new paint, new tricked out panel, new fuel tanks… and even then it might not quite be 300

[toto]

1 hour ago, Grant_Waite said:

Title says it all. Was looking at planes a few nights ago and saw this 81J for 300k!! I’m sure most of us are guilty of looking at planes, even though we are perfectly content with our own. I get the plane has well over 100k in work done recently but still. I can get a tricked out 90s long body for 300k or even a g1000 ovation. Just seems like the epitome of the saying “you’ll never get what you put into it”

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/237016605/1981-mooney-m20j-201-piston-single-aircraft?gad_source=1

Sometimes an owner will post their plane for sale because they’ve been forced by circumstances…. but they really don’t want to sell.

$300k might be the “if someone were crazy enough to offer me this for the plane, I’d sell it today” amount. 

[ArtVandelay]

Not a hangar queen, has flown 7 times in the last 8 days.

[Echo]

A ridiculous number. Similar to air cooled Porsche asks.   I guess if you really want it. 

[ta2too]

2 hours ago, Grant_Waite said:

Title says it all. Was looking at planes a few nights ago and saw this 81J for 300k!! I’m sure most of us are guilty of looking at planes, even though we are perfectly content with our own. I get the plane has well over 100k in work done recently but still. I can get a tricked out 90s long body for 300k or even a g1000 ovation. Just seems like the epitome of the saying “you’ll never get what you put into it”

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/237016605/1981-mooney-m20j-201-piston-single-aircraft?gad_source=1

Looking at this plane, he may easily have 300k tied up in it. He just doesn't know aviation calculus yet. Hard lesson coming!

[toto]

55 minutes ago, 201er said:

I think it would take 0 time factory reman, new interior, new paint, new tricked out panel, new fuel tanks… and even then it might not quite be 300

I noticed that it’s a turbonormalized J, which means a Rajay turbo. The Rajays are basically unobtanium, which might be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view… but it’s relatively unique, in any case. 

[Grant_Waite]

41 minutes ago, toto said:

I noticed that it’s a turbonormalized J, which means a Rajay turbo. The Rajays are basically unobtanium, which might be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view… but it’s relatively unique, in any case. 

I’d say a bad thing since it’s unobtanium next person who has any issues will be in for a rude awakening when parts need to be replaced. A lot of money and months aog 

[toto]

1 minute ago, Grant_Waite said:

I’d say a bad thing since it’s unobtanium next person who has any issues will be in for a rude awakening when parts need to be replaced. A lot of money and months aog 

Yeah .. but if you really want a turbonormalized J, the best way to get one is with the Rajay already installed. 

Anecdotally on MS, people who have these do seem to like them, and maintenance hasn’t been much of a problem. 

[MikeOH]

SWMBO told him to sell it

[1980Mooney]

8 hours ago, toto said:

I noticed that it’s a turbonormalized J, which means a Rajay turbo. The Rajays are basically unobtanium, which might be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view… but it’s relatively unique, in any case. 

 

7 hours ago, Grant_Waite said:

I’d say a bad thing since it’s unobtanium next person who has any issues will be in for a rude awakening when parts need to be replaced. A lot of money and months aog 

 

7 hours ago, toto said:

Yeah .. but if you really want a turbonormalized J, the best way to get one is with the Rajay already installed. 

Anecdotally on MS, people who have these do seem to like them, and maintenance hasn’t been much of a problem. 

If the owner is hoping to sell the plane for a super premium above any comparable model, then you would think that he or the broker would be a bit more forthcoming and transparent about the engine history.

In 2020 when he purchased it, the J was a "Turbo Bullet" conversion.  This was an early troubled conversion by Aircraft Design, Incorporated in Spoke (started by Darwin Conrad - yes the same Darwin Conrad that went on to start successful Rocket Engineering).  This was not Darwin Conrad's finest hour.  The STC was originally an over-boosted Lycoming fitted with low compression pistons, fixed wastegate and intercooler.  It ran at 38.5 inches but RPM was limited to 2,575.  Due to failures it led to an Airworthiness Directive in 1993 that limited boost to 33.0 inches and still limited RPM. to 2,575.

https://www.aeroresourcesinc.com/uploads/199010-1988 Mooney M20J 201SE Turbo Conversion.pdf

The 2020 advertisement said:

"This is a LYCOMING IO-360 conversion. It is not a turbo normalizer with a fourth turbo control. It is a true turbo with the turbo integrated into the throttle and the engine is designed to run at higher manifold pressures. "

The current ad says " Turbo Normalized- ...Complete overhaul fire wall forward, engine, turbo, propeller work done in 2022"

OK - something more had to have been done to turn this into a "Turbo-Normalized" IO-360.  Something significant - more than an overhaul.  Maybe original pistons, but what type of Turbo Normalizer control was added?

 

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/191422791/n4064h-1981-mooney-m20j-201

[Paul Thomas]

There was also a bright yellow one advertised last year and earlier this year whose price seemed optimistic. It had its own website and custom made matching iPhone case. I think is was a 1978.

[Grant_Waite]

53 minutes ago, Paul Thomas said:

There was also a bright yellow one advertised last year and earlier this year whose price seemed optimistic. It had its own website and custom made matching iPhone case. I think is was a 1978.

Yeah, it was like neon green right? Super nice plane and all, but my god was it overpriced. Wonder what happened to it? That one and this one were both in Florida so of course corrosion is a thing here… I guess. 

[toto]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

If the owner is hoping to sell the plane for a super premium above any comparable model, then you would think that he or the broker would be a bit more forthcoming and transparent about the engine history.

In 2020 when he purchased it, the J was a "Turbo Bullet" conversion.  This was an early troubled conversion by Aircraft Design, Incorporated in Spoke (started by Darwin Conrad - yes the same Darwin Conrad that went on to start successful Rocket Engineering).  This was not Darwin Conrad's finest hour.  The STC was originally an over-boosted Lycoming fitted with low compression pistons, fixed wastegate and intercooler.  It ran at 38.5 inches but RPM was limited to 2,575.  Due to failures it led to an Airworthiness Directive in 1993 that limited boost to 33.0 inches and still limited RPM. to 2,575.

https://www.aeroresourcesinc.com/uploads/199010-1988 Mooney M20J 201SE Turbo Conversion.pdf

The 2020 advertisement said:

"This is a LYCOMING IO-360 conversion. It is not a turbo normalizer with a fourth turbo control. It is a true turbo with the turbo integrated into the throttle and the engine is designed to run at higher manifold pressures. "

The current ad says " Turbo Normalized- ...Complete overhaul fire wall forward, engine, turbo, propeller work done in 2022"

OK - something more had to have been done to turn this into a "Turbo-Normalized" IO-360.  Something significant - more than an overhaul.  Maybe original pistons, but what type of Turbo Normalizer control was added?

 

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/191422791/n4064h-1981-mooney-m20j-201

Interesting. Nice research … definitely seems like there’s more here than an average tire kicker would want to unpack. 

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

OK - something more had to have been done to turn this into a "Turbo-Normalized" IO-360.  Something significant - more than an overhaul.  Maybe original pistons, but what type of Turbo Normalizer control was added?

Most likely nothing.  People like the sound of the phrase "turbo normalized", but it doesn't have any specific meaning -- it's like the phrase "pre-purchase inspection", which also has no specific meaning.

[1980Mooney]

45 minutes ago, Grant_Waite said:

Yeah, it was like neon green right? Super nice plane and all, but my god was it overpriced. Wonder what happened to it? That one and this one were both in Florida so of course corrosion is a thing here… I guess. 

It never sold.  Same owner listed since 2021.  What a surprise.....

https://www.flightaware.com/resources/registration/N3716H

https://www.hangar67.com/aircraft/1979-mooney-m20j-201/29948

[Grant_Waite]

15 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

It never sold.  Same owner listed since 2021.  What a surprise.....

https://www.flightaware.com/resources/registration/N3716H

https://www.hangar67.com/aircraft/1979-mooney-m20j-201/29948

Not surprising at all. I don’t understand what these people expect when they dump so much money into something they know is only worth 150-170 on a good day. Apparently he made this website for it and has posted on here, that’s the yellow one I’m talking about. Not the one I originally posted on. https://mooneym20forsale.com

same year as my J, just quite a lot nicer but my plane isn’t a dumpster fire by any means. 

[PeterRus]

I guess, the price for these two Js might very well "fair". The 1981 has the panel I think I want. However, the problem is that at this price point other ("better") aircraft are available... 

[toto]

9 minutes ago, Grant_Waite said:

Not surprising at all. I don’t understand what these people expect when they dump so much money into something they know is only worth 150-170 on a good day. Apparently he made this website for it and has posted on here, that’s the yellow one I’m talking about. Not the one I originally posted on. https://mooneym20forsale.com

same year as my J, just quite a lot nicer but my plane isn’t a dumpster fire by any means. 

There are J model Mooneys that have sold for well over 200 in the past few years, but 300 is really pushing it. I don’t think there’s anything here that’s more compelling than @Rmag’s 205, and I don’t think he sold his for anywhere close to 300. 

[KSMooniac]

1980 is correct on the turbo lineage for this J. The Turbo Bullet mod had an AD issued after a fatal accident in 1993 that restricted the MP to 33" instead of 38". The FAA realized it was making way over 200 hp originally after revisiting the mod. This plane looks to have a green arc up to 33" on the G500, so it was apparently not somehow modified to a "normalizer" configuration with regular 8.7:1 pistons and 30" max.

In the mid 90s a different individual got an STC for a turbo normalizer without changing pistons and limiting MP to 30". The kit is almost identical as far as my research indicated, hardware-wise. That STC is orphaned and likely wouldn't make economic sense these days with prices for components where they are, unless we could all get 300k for our J's!

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[toto]

11 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

1980 is correct on the turbo lineage for this J. The Turbo Bullet mod had an AD issued after a fatal accident in 1993 that restricted the MP to 33" instead of 38". The FAA realized it was making way over 200 hp originally after revisiting the mod. This plane looks to have a green arc up to 33" on the G500, so it was apparently not somehow modified to a "normalizer" configuration with regular 8.7:1 pistons and 30" max.

In the mid 90s a different individual got an STC for a turbo normalizer without changing pistons and limiting MP to 30". The kit is almost identical as far as my research indicated, hardware-wise. That STC is orphaned and likely wouldn't make economic sense these days with prices for components where they are, unless we could all get 300k for our J's!

Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk
 

I think the newer STC was the M-20 Turbos product, but iirc it still used a Rajay turbocharger.