TKS weirdness; level meter shows fluctuating indications

[dkkim73]

16 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

While belly pan is off good idea to wipe off all TKS fluid, spray all rod ends with triflo, I put a small rubber seal strip in front of the front belly panel under the cowl boot to stop TKS fluid from splashing into the belly,

...

run the system on the ground, look for dead spots in the wing panels, best indication of dead spot is drip pattern on the ground, squeeze TKS fluid into dead spot with sponge, tail hardly ever has dead spots, gets much more fluid per foot due to tighter radius

@Fritz1, could you elaborate on how the fluid splahes into this area and where exactly the rubber seal strip might go? Is it from normal use or when it overflowed? The large panel I pulled (with what I think is a transponder antenna, ventrally-located) inserts under the panel in front of it, which I think might also be a removable belly panel. Forward of that is some more curved portions that relate to the cowl... is that the cowl boot? 

Would the strip go on the more-forward panel, forward edge? Or just somewhere on the more forward panel to prevent runback to the main belly panel? Sorry if this is basic, I am just trying to envision the flow ("think like a water droplet"). 

As for the test, I did run it earlier on the ground (in high) a couple days prior and saw pretty even wetting in short order (it had been used a lot in anger the week before).  

@GeeBee that approach makes sense, full or empty. I think the concern I have is knowing if I really am full given the #s and the possibity of a siphon effect. 

Thank you all,

David

 

[Fritz1]

Fluid from the prop slinger runs down the outside of the cowl and keeps into the belly in front of the first belly panel, I put a 1/8" thick soft rubber windlace strip under the aluminum cowl boot into the gap where the front of the first body panel slides in, no more fluid splashes into belly. The gaps at the front of the second belly panel and in front of the third belly panel do not appear to be susceptible to fluid splashing in, presume pressure on the outside is lower than on inside. Fresh TKS fluid is not corrosive, but washes lubricants away from anything it touches. Wipe belly cavity and all moving parts dry and lube all rod ends with triflo, the same applies to all rod ends in the flight control system and in the lading gear each time the TKS system is used. Therefore I run the system on the ground for monthly priming instead of running it in the air. A well primed system will dribble on the hangar floor whenever the pressure drops, once it stops dribbling it us time to re-prime, run about 5 min on each main pump on high, blow 5 squirts out of each windshield pump, put a paper towel over the squirt nozzle. Bottom line this is a royal mess but beats the alternative of icing up. The system is certified for known icing, I do not know what the exact parameters are and how this relates to an icing forecast. I stay away from anything that is forecast to be more than moderate and anything that looks like more than one hour dwelling time since the system will only run 2.5h on low and 1.25 h on high. I have never needed the high setting in flight besides for priming. The original owner of the airplane flew back and forth between Bozeman and Seattle over the cascades, said the system got him out of really ugly icing a couple of times running on high with the engine firewalled. Don't want to go there, there is severe icing that will overwhelm any deicer, always leave yourself a way out above or below, the Bravo will climb pretty swiftly to 21k, about critical altitude on the turbo, 23k climb gets flat, maybe 300ft/min. On an approach in icing speed brakes are better left alone, gear down when you break out, 120kt min, for me 1000 ft is a good minimum if icing on an approach. Fly safe!

[dkkim73]

6 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

Fresh TKS fluid is not corrosive, but washes lubricants away from anything it touches. Wipe belly cavity and all moving parts dry and lube all rod ends with triflo, the same applies to all rod ends in the flight control system and in the lading gear each time the TKS system is used. 

Do I understand correctly you spray the externally-visible parts of the system (landing gear linkages, exposed ends of rods along ailerons and empennage) after routine TKS use? I'm getting some Tri-Flo soonest in any case. Spoke at length to my local A&P (new-ish to me). He was suspicious of something spraying internally and was wanting to test it under pressure with the panels off (going to get the plane at some point soon for other work) but your post makes me wonder if some of the fluid worked it's way back earlier. FWIW I have not run it in flight for a week and a half. 

Thanks for the info and operational tips (e.g. delaying gear in ice, etc). I've been impressed by my limited experience with TKS. We did go to high flow in a couple cases on the repo and training flights. I'm definitely going to cut a much wider margin in solo ops in a new region and being new to TKS.  

Hope you are enjoying Yellowstone!
David

[GeeBee]

Just make sure you have an out. Some times the system may quit. Tubes and fittings blow out from time to time and the icing forecast sometimes turns to doo-doo. In a Mooney you don't have the thrust to get clear quickly.

 

[Fritz1]

The triflo is listed in the service manual for lots of lubrication spots, including balljoints on rod ends, good stuff, Walmart typically has it. The idea is to lube exposed rod ends in flight control system and landing gear before they rust, once you know where they are it only takes a couple of minutes, the triflo is also good to wipe lead bromide exhaust plume from paint

[exM20K]

24 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

the triflo is also good to wipe lead bromide exhaust plume from paint

Interesting.  I will have to try this. Thanks

-dan

[PaulM]

Also remember the graph that maps the digital display against the amount  in the tank(Page 19)

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SUPP0017H.pdf

When it reads 0.0 you still have 1.5 Gal of fluid on board. 

Edited February 27 by PaulM

[Fly Boomer]

15 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

Do I understand correctly you spray the externally-visible parts of the system (landing gear linkages, exposed ends of rods along ailerons and empennage) after routine TKS use? I'm getting some Tri-Flo soonest in any case. Spoke at length to my local A&P (new-ish to me). He was suspicious of something spraying internally and was wanting to test it under pressure with the panels off (going to get the plane at some point soon for other work) but your post makes me wonder if some of the fluid worked it's way back earlier. FWIW I have not run it in flight for a week and a half. 

Thanks for the info and operational tips (e.g. delaying gear in ice, etc). I've been impressed by my limited experience with TKS. We did go to high flow in a couple cases on the repo and training flights. I'm definitely going to cut a much wider margin in solo ops in a new region and being new to TKS.  

Hope you are enjoying Yellowstone!
David

Most probably prefer the Tri-Flo spray can, but I find this thing puts it exactly where I want it, and nowhere else.  It's refillable, so it's not just trash when empty.  That said, to apply, you give the plastic tube a squeeze and, after it's been squeezed a few hundred times, you will need a new one.  They are pretty cheap.

https://www.triflowlubricants.com/product/tri-flow-pin-point-lubricator/

[Fly Boomer]

16 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

Do I understand correctly you spray the externally-visible parts of the system (landing gear linkages, exposed ends of rods along ailerons and empennage) after routine TKS use?

On re-reading your post, I submit that it's not just the "externally-visible parts of the system".  Rather, the cleanup should include everything inside the empennage/tail.  I think it was DMAX who told me the TKS fluid, if used in flight, gets into the tail starting aft, and working its way forward.  I have not done it yet, but I plan to buy some trays to catch the fluid, and exercise the system in my hangar instead of in flight.  Of course, if you use it in flight because of actual icing, then you will have to clean and lubricate everything.

[Fritz1]

Yes, elevator jackscrew in tail gets hit by tks fluid especially if cover is damaged, during annual trim full up, pull cover back and put specified grease on elevator jackscrew, think all the other internal moving parts in tail get triflo, think hinge bearings in rudder and elevator are sealed