Danb Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 Recently did first oil change using regular oil after top overhaul, 60-70 hours. There are a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal in filter. Could this still be rings breaking in or another worrisome issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 Pics? I don’t think that would be uncommon to have some after a top. How many oil changes since top? -Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz1 Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 magnetic or not? carbon flakes can have a shiny surface but when you pick at them with a needle they fall apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted November 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 Not sure I’ll check with a magnet in morning. Can’t really see them in photo, to small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 29 minutes ago, Danb said: Recently did first oil change using regular oil after top overhaul, 60-70 hours. There are a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal in filter. Could this still be rings breaking in or another worrisome issue. Having “a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal” in the oil filter is very normal regardless of a recent top overhaul. The question is how many and how small. 5-10 flecks that are 1x2 mm or smaller is not a cause for concern, particularly considering your recent top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 Ref Lycoming Service Bulletin 480 for guidelines 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted November 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 51 minutes ago, Andy95W said: Having “a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal” in the oil filter is very normal regardless of a recent top overhaul. The question is how many and how small. 5-10 flecks that are 1x2 mm or smaller is not a cause for concern, particularly considering your recent top. Basically like salt flecks small Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 Some metal is normal. As mentioned, the Lycoming service bulletin gives an idea of how much is too much, at least from their perspective, and it is A LOT, so what you're describing sounds like potentially normal if there aren't a ton of the described flakes. Mine was making a fair amount of metal for a while (due to a failing prop governor, although I didn't know it at the time), and both the local Lycoming rep and the local engine shop that had done the IRAN said to just keep running it and keep an eye on it. That was good advice since it turned out to not even be the engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted November 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 After reading the lycoming svc bulletin PJ referred to likely it’s normal or near normal. This stuff is scary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 I’m still showing a few flecks of non ferrous per oil change after 200 hrs on overhaul. Not really concerned with it unless I start seeing a trend of ‘mo flecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 50 minutes ago, Danb said: After reading the lycoming svc bulletin PJ referred to likely it’s normal or near normal. This stuff is scary Running a magnet over it is still worth doing just to monitor trends going forward. Same thing with oil analysis if you're not already, especially for a fresh engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Maurer Posted November 26, 2023 Report Share Posted November 26, 2023 Have had my 2008 Ovation for four years. When I first did an oil change, I had the same tiny shiny flecks of metal at oil change time. Specks were non ferrous and was told the source could be piston pin rubbing in the cylinder walls. Did scope and never did see any scoring marks and it was suggested just to watch oil changes. After two or three further 30 hour oil changes , the tiny few flakes were no longer there. Oil Analysis was not helpful so never really did figure out where the small amount of very tiny flakes started. I suspect Mike Busch might say the same thing...just watch it...but it is certainly annoying.I. am still curious!! Alan N913ND 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted November 27, 2023 Report Share Posted November 27, 2023 A trick I learned from an A&P friend is to remove the media from the filter and compress the pleats and put it in a vice to squeeze the oil out of the media. (You might have to cut the media into 2 or 3 pieces depending on the opening of the jaws of your vice). This makes it much easier to see the metal trapped in the now dry media. Another check for fine ferrous material is to wash the media in a coffee can of clean solvent and then swish a magnet around in the solvent. Ferrous material will adhere to the magnet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted November 27, 2023 Report Share Posted November 27, 2023 2 hours ago, PT20J said: A trick I learned from an A&P friend is to remove the media from the filter and compress the pleats and put it in a vice to squeeze the oil out of the media. (You might have to cut the media into 2 or 3 pieces depending on the opening of the jaws of your vice). This makes it much easier to see the metal trapped in the now dry media. Another check for fine ferrous material is to wash the media in a coffee can of clean solvent and then swish a magnet around in the solvent. Ferrous material will adhere to the magnet. Another method is to wash it in a coffee can or something like you mention, and then strain it through a coffee filter. All of the chips/flakes/etc will be in the filter and it's easy to run a magnet over them or take a look under a magnifying glass or microscope. I cut the pleats out and run a magnet over them by hand. It's a little messy, but to me more straightforward than dealing with a vice or using up solvent and coffee filters. It's good to have the different methods, so people can pic whatever suits them best. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 How do you guys cut out the pleats? I've been using a utility knife but, frankly, it's the most time consuming part of the job. The blade isn't really long enough to easily get to the 'bottom' of the pleats, and I end up more or less ripping the pleats out! Looking for a better method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 18 minutes ago, MikeOH said: How do you guys cut out the pleats? I've been using a utility knife but, frankly, it's the most time consuming part of the job. The blade isn't really long enough to easily get to the 'bottom' of the pleats, and I end up more or less ripping the pleats out! Looking for a better method. I use a hacksaw blade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 Ditto… -Don 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 Thanks! Obvious solution after you told me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 23 minutes ago, MikeOH said: How do you guys cut out the pleats? I've been using a utility knife but, frankly, it's the most time consuming part of the job. The blade isn't really long enough to easily get to the 'bottom' of the pleats, and I end up more or less ripping the pleats out! Looking for a better method. I just use one of these. Keep it on a sharp section and it goes pretty quickly. Hacksaw blade might be less risky, though. https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-blade-utility-knife-97068.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 49 minutes ago, EricJ said: I just use one of these. Keep it on a sharp section and it goes pretty quickly. Hacksaw blade might be less risky, though. https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-blade-utility-knife-97068.html Me too, but I like the hacksaw blade idea. I scare myself every time I try to hold onto a slippery filter and wield a long, sharp blade! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 I use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/AMERICAN-MUTT-TOOLS-Hacksaw-Metal/dp/B0CC3RWWSR/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?hvadid=580673637344&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=1026271&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15105830604234421712&hvtargid=kwd-433652494207&hydadcr=29012_14560063&keywords=small+hacksaw+blade&qid=1701149659&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1 -Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 All mechanics I have spoken with told me that "some metal is normal". https://www.lycoming.com/content/suggestions-if-metal-found-screens-or-filter https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-bulletin-no-480-f "Quantity found – ¼ teaspoonful or more; ground aircraft and investigate." 1/4 teaspoon is 1.23 ml. Find a kids' tylenol syringe if you don't have a small graduated cylinder. As was also mentioned in a Mike Busch article, that is actually A LOT of metal... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Ellis Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 AircraftSpruce.com sells one of these. I have not used it because it is damn pricey for a glorified box cutter with an attachment to it but they are available. Tempest AA471 Oil Filter Media Cutter | Aircraft Spruce 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDude Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Greg Ellis said: damn pricey for a glorified box cutter I use this: https://www.harborfreight.com/color-snap-blade-utility-knife-60828.html Do I win the CBoC (cheap bastard of the century) award? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Ellis Posted November 28, 2023 Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 minute ago, FlyingDude said: I use this: https://www.harborfreight.com/color-snap-blade-utility-knife-60828.html Do I win the CBoC (cheap bastard of the century) award? You are in a tie with @EricJ who posted one earlier in this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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