TKS on a J?

[LFOD]

A hypothetical:

 

Would you pay the 30K price tag to put TKS on a 1984 M20J?  I had an encounter with icing a few days ago that took a few years off my life. I am wondering if anyone has had any experience with TKS in a non-turbo aircraft.  I was always under the impression that it is silly to have one without the other. 

As for the aircraft, as much as I would love a turbo, I think this J is going to meet 90% of my mission requirements for at least five to eight years.  I.E. I wont install the TKS and then sell the plane two years later. 

What say you? 

[Cruiser]

I would check this system too, sounds very promising.

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2007/t_5.html

 

[FlyingAggie]

Matt,

Willmar will be listing a 231 with TKS in the next few days.

Alan

 

[FlyDave]

I almost bougt a Missile with TKS a few months ago. In fact it was up in your neck of the woods - west of Seattle in the high desert. The guy selling it sweared by it. He said he "had never lost altitude due to icing" in that plane.

As I discussed it with my airline pilot buddies (current and retired) every one of them said that even with an anti-icing system, they still wouldn't knowingly enter icing conditions in a single engine piston airplane. They just wouldn't - no questions asked. One of them (he has a turbo 210) said to me that he wouldn't have a TKS system just so he's not tempted to entering icing conditions.

From a safety standpoint, I think it's a handy system to have - in case you end up in conditions where icing is possible (poor flight planning...) and need an "Easy Button" instead of requesting a descent or climb and trying to execute it with an airframe full of ice.

I got my instrument rating last year and have A LOT OF RESPECT FOR INSTRUMENT CONDITIONS. Icing is something I'll always give a wide berth to. It's just freaking dangerous and not something that is very predictable. Even with TKS, I don't think I'd go FIKI.

Instrument flying is dangerous enough. Adding another layer of complexity to my IFR flights is not something I want to do.

Just my thoughts.....

[LFOD]

All good points. This is certainly a hypothetical as I could find better uses for that kind of money.  Thanks guys. 

[skyking]

Hi guys: I have to agree with flydave. Even with the capabilities i would never intentionally go into known icing.

It is nice to have in case you need it but dont use it just because you have it,,, if you know what i mean.

 

 

russ

[blacknchrome]

I think if you can afford it and there's a chance in your type of flying that you may encounter it, add the TKS.  One time in a bad situation would make it worth every penny.  If it's something you're flying in or around from time to time, I would consider it. 

[FAADAR]

Quote: LFOD

A hypothetical: Hi LFOD: The key here is FIKI no I am not swearing at you , FIKI is Flight into Known Icing. The STC modification is expensive, takes a long time to order and you need to pay first. I am assuming LFOD is in France, so if you were to go to Rheinland Airservice Germany or Troyes Aviation France, for example you pay 30K and wait 8 Months for delivery :-0

The truth of the matter is you are not certified for FIKI. Honestly 30K just for piece of mind? but this still does not allow you to climb through cloud into clear air. IT IS NOT APPROVED. I know as a DAR I see things a bit on the Legal side and I am also a Mooney J pilot and I suffer just like you all. but no matter how much you pay and no matter if the installation is FAA Approved (EASA also) you are only allowed to get out of ice with the TKS system.

Newer models have factory TKS which is FIKI approved due to the fact that there are 2 pumps a second generator Windshield de ice and dual batteries (there are other differences also) 

While I was exporting a Mooney that was full FIKI I took a look at the Flight manual supplement and there are also other restrictions such as flight into freezing rain not permitted.

Also the false sense of security may get you into trouble also. The only way is to look at your TEMSI, look at your MEA, decide if you are good 2000 Feet above or below freezing level. and make your decision. I have also learned under supervision crossing the UK Channel how much ice you can get on a Mooney wing and to know what the weather is below it is scary but only prior planning good judgement and always planning a way out is key for our M20J's

 

Ice is not Nice but is 30K+ worth the price 

 

Yours FAA DAR

 

Would you pay the 30K price tag to put TKS on a 1984 M20J?  I had an encounter with icing a few days ago that took a few years off my life. I am wondering if anyone has had any experience with TKS in a non-turbo aircraft.  I was always under the impression that it is silly to have one without the other. 

As for the aircraft, as much as I would love a turbo, I think this J is going to meet 90% of my mission requirements for at least five to eight years.  I.E. I wont install the TKS and then sell the plane two years later. 

What say you? 

[iceman]

Matt,

I am also in your neck of the woods (S43) and have experienced icing on several instances.  Statistically, the Northwest is the very worst place to live in the US for icing.  Between November and March, we are under an Airmet for icing 50% of the time.  What most pilots don't realize when giving advise on your needs is that our MEA's are so high in the NW, there is no real option to descend to a lower altitude.  Just to get out of Puget Sound you need to be at least 6,000ft heading to Portland.  The only real option is to turn around, and I've used that one more than once.  You can pretty much throw out the option of playing with your altitude...we have mountains everywhere.  

Another item to consider is that your J cannot be FIKI approved.  There is no STC that allows that.  You can have TKS-deice, but not FIKI.

I have been searching high and low for the perfect all-around airplane that I can fly all year up here.  I have narrowed it down to a Cirrus or Mooney...BOTH WITH TKS.  While I won't launch knowingly into known icing, here in the NW it can and  eventually will get you if you do ANY IFR flying between November and March.

Everyone here has provided very sound advice on staying out of icing conditions.  So you will basically need to park your plane until April or May of next year.  But being and avid flyer, my advice it to pay the money!  Of course you could use in on the 6 VFR days we get during the winter!

FYI, the only way I stay current during the winter is to buzz around Tacoma, Paine and Skagit at MVA (3,000 ft) and do approaches.  Even then you can pick up ice so have an out at all times.

 

Dan 

N9940V

"iceman"

[FAADAR]

I guess the best is the most expensive alternative.. Single engine turboprop..:-(