Sad sight

[GeeBee]

19 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Why would it have stalled if they had auto throttle? I don’t fly Airliners but isn’t it pretty standard now? Isn’t there a “Go-around” button? is it possible that it could be as simple as the GPWS simply activating the go-around button? I freely admit to having only a passing interest in airliners and zero experience, but do have significant experience with fly by wire military aircraft (helicopters).

I’m not particularly a fan of automation, but admit it has its place, especially if it’s easily overridden. But bringing up stall, why is it even possible to stall an airliner? They have angle of attack sensors, I’m sure most are fly by wire now, so why is it a pilot can stall one? 

I have no idea about the incident you speak of but am certain that nothings perfect, I’m certain for instance that there are accidents that could be attributed to auto anti-lock brakes, but for every accident, there are a whole lot more it prevents.

But back to Mooney gear, I believe an automated gear system would be easy to implement and would prevent the majority of gear -ups and could easily be overridden for the very rare circumstance were a gear up landing is desired. I mean a landing height warning is nice, but as evidenced by the video posted a lot of visual and aural warnings are ignored by pilots concentrating on a difficult approach or talking to tower etc.

Do people regularly video all of their flights? why? Where else could these video’s come from?

They do build airplanes that won't stall. Airbus and the B-2 being two examples. But they did stall, one because eventually you have to put the airplane in a position for landing and two, sensors fail as the USAF and Air France can attest.

[GeeBee]

2 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

You’re saying the engines quit? Real easy to write in the software that if the engines don’t respond then don’t pull up the nose and or have a simple override switch on the yoke.

I already said that I’m not familiar with that accident, is that the one from fuel icing? Pretty much one in a million isn’t it? I’m sure if you look hard enough you can find an accident that the seat belt killed the person, but it would be exceedingly rare, so we wear seat belts even though they killed someone.

I believe the Snell foundation was started that way, a wealthy man’s son died from injuries caused by the helmet and he decided no other man would lose a Son to a poorly designed helmet, or at least that is what I heard long ago, but even those poorly designed ones probably saved hundreds for the one that was killed.

1957 it seems https://russbrown.com/snell-foundation-certifying-helmets-to-help-motorcyclists-stay-safe/#:~:text=The organization was founded back,failed to protect his head.

Nothing is perfect, but things can be made pretty close, and give you an easy override for those times when it’s not.

It was more than 1 in a million. Delta had the same problem on approach to ATL. Captain Cal Beverly was at the controls. He was able to re-establish thrust. Equally so Cathay had a set of RB211s do a double flame out into Hong Kong. Double flame outs happen with more frequency than most would like to think.

[flyboy0681]

Talk about topic creep…

[Pinecone]

39 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

It was more than 1 in a million. Delta had the same problem on approach to ATL. Captain Cal Beverly was at the controls. He was able to re-establish thrust. Equally so Cathay had a set of RB211s do a double flame out into Hong Kong. Double flame outs happen with more frequency than most would like to think.

I think BA had one with a 777 that hit short of the runway.

[GeeBee]

That is the one we are talking about.

[Aerodon]

So my question - can an orphan STC be transferred from one airplane to another, without permission from the original STC owner because they are no longer in business?  Gotta be an M20P owner that could use the STC from this plane if and when it gets parted out?

 

Don

[1980Mooney]

14 minutes ago, Aerodon said:

So my question - can an orphan STC be transferred from one airplane to another, without permission from the original STC owner because they are no longer in business?  Gotta be an M20P owner that could use the STC from this plane if and when it gets parted out?

 

Don

This has been discussed a few times.  There is an FAA process - they have to contact the former owners, etc.  But no one has seen anyone transfer an "abandoned" Mooney STC from Mod Works, Mod Squad, Mooney Mart, etc (all the prolific STC shops that closed down).  Permission is one thing - the drawings and specs are another.  And I bet there is a lot of lost "know how" that was not captured in data sent to the FAA.

[KSMooniac]

1 hour ago, Aerodon said:

So my question - can an orphan STC be transferred from one airplane to another, without permission from the original STC owner because they are no longer in business?  Gotta be an M20P owner that could use the STC from this plane if and when it gets parted out?

 

Don

My semi-educated opinion... I think that could be "sold" if an owner of an un-converted M20L were to purchase this one as salvage, receive the entire airplane, records, STC permission letter, POH supplement, etc. and then convert his old Porsche Mooney.  Then you're transferring the STC from one plane you own to another eligible plane in the absence of STC owner support... I don't think that is shady or violating the intent of the regs.  I wonder if anyone still flies an un-converted M20L AND wants to do such a conversion these days?  I don't think one could "buy" the conversion from a third party that buys the salvage... my opinion only.  

[1980Mooney]

50 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

 I wonder if anyone still flies an un-converted M20L AND wants to do such a conversion these days?  I don't think one could "buy" the conversion from a third party that buys the salvage... my opinion only.  

There might be a couple out there. Somewhere I heard there was one in Germany. There was one for sale recently on Barnstormers. 

 

[A64Pilot]

But would the converted airplane be worth that much more than the cost of conversion?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just repair this one?

Of course we have no idea of the extent of the damage.

In the Super Cub world it’s not at all uncommon to buy an airplane and essentially transfer the data plate and logs over to  a new airplane under the guise of a repair

You can’t build one, but you can repair one by replacing every single piece part there is, done all the time for exhausts and baffling etc. no different for an airplane.

Not applicable for a Mooney I guess but I think someone could be slick and use another airframe to repair this one.