No Safety Advantage on Glass Cockpit

[PTK]

Quote: Mazerbase

Even your admission you have no first hand information insults them.  Do you have any non-anecdotal basis for saying there are "random multiple failures" or that "consumer confidence is lacking"?  If you do, I want to hear it so it can be addressed.  If you don't, your speculation and slurs may hurt all of us that rely on Aspen and future development and products.  Not to mention, it just isn't nice to malign them for no reason.

I think all electronic appliances have the potential for ealy demise but once past that stage are usually very stable.  As mine have been.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Vref

The Aspen is by far the better unit and is significantly more capable. I have flown both. The Sandel is more relavent if you already have a King compass system istalled, otherwise, you are flying your Mooney back in time. If I had a Lear 35, the Sandel would work well.

I have an Aspen 2000 system. I have flown it 50 hours since last April without a hitch. Every new product has to cut their teeth (sorry for the pun).

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Cris

In case anyone is interested these guys are offering a special on the Sandel SN 3500 $6950 http://www.sea-avionics.com/documents/promotions/SEA_SN3500.pdf

[David Mazer]

Quote: allsmiles

[PTK]

The only risk is long term durability and reliability.

 

John, why is this a concern?

[Vref]

Quote: Mazerbase

I think all electronic appliances have the potential for ealy demise but once past that stage are usually very stable.  As mine have been.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I've toured Aspen's facility and it was a first-rate operation.  To insinuate what the condition of their balance sheet is without any relevant information is questionable.

[Vref]

Hey Luc... I have a series 2000, properly installed and haven't had a hitch. I concede the Sandel is a very rugged unit (hence my Lear comment), but please dont' be afraid of the Aspen. My research led me to understand:

1) Remote sensor unit issues were mostly installation related (poor shimming)

2) In the beginning, Aspen chose legacy avionics dealers who weren't properly trained and some didn't even have laptops for installations

3) Shutdown issues were among the very first generation units and those issues are resolved.

If anything, Aspen's early concerns were the result of explosive demand. The only risk is long term durability and reliability. Aspen's corporate behavior has be exemplary thus far and if the units start crapping out, I am certain they will back them up.

[Cris]

Quote: N4352H

 Only if you have the KSC-55 King HSI remote compass already installed.

[Vref]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

I've toured Aspen's facility and it was a first-rate operation.  To insinuate what the condition of their balance sheet is without any relevant information is questionable.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: allsmiles

The only risk is long term durability and reliability.

 

John, why is this a concern?

[M016576]

Glass vs steam.

It all comes down to 2 things:  training and proficiency.

Throwing 15k at an instrument won't buy you either.  That's kind of the problem with general aviation:  the requirements are less restrictive from a training/proficiency standpoint than most commercial/military operations.  This means it's on you as the PIC to prepare yourself and be an honest judge of your capabilities.  

Glass won't make you 'safer', but it might make you feel safer.. Which could potentially lead to more risk taking behaviour.

Also something to consider:  TAA's with glass tend to fly more on cross country type flights, while steam driven type aircraft have a high instance as trainer aircraft (less hard ifr, flown closer to a single base, etc).  

Stats are what you make of them! 

[PTK]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

I've toured Aspen's facility and it was a first-rate operation.  To insinuate what the condition of their balance sheet is without any relevant information is questionable.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Vref

 

[Vref]

  This means it's on you as the PIC to prepare yourself and be an honest judge of your capabilities.  

[PTK]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

 

 

My comment was based on allsmiles aluding to Aspen having financial troubles.

[Vref]

This said I am off to sleep to keep Flying Biorithm aligned with the 51N 004E ephemeris...enjoyed the talk cu all

rgds

Luc

[Parker_Woodruff]

[Skybrd]

Quote: allsmiles

The only risk is long term durability and reliability.

 

John, why is this a concern?

[PTK]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

[AndyFromCB]

Parker and all,

I've said it before and I'll say it again, P.K. has some sort of personal vendetta against Aspen. I don't get it. Maybe they didn't give him a discount or special treatment, or something. Not unlike my personal vendetta against Mooney, the worst run company in the world and that includes all the ones I've run and sold over the years ;-) I'm going to add Honeywell to my list too and their POS autopilots. And in the afterlife, hopefully I can catch Al Mooney in hell and explain a thing or two about landing gear design because my lawn mower has considerably better ride. I'm begining to suspect more thought and care went into the design of the servos on my $30 R/C helicopter from Targer than my KFC 150.

Spent a whole day working on my tail dragger endorsment. Fun, fun, fun. SD has the basic Aspen. Not once did it get confused doing loops and rolls today.

Andy

[PTK]

Quote: astelmaszek

Parker and all,

I've said it before and I'll say it again, P.K. has some sort of personal vendetta against Aspen. I don't get it. Maybe they didn't give him a discount or special treatment, or something. Not unlike my personal vendetta against Mooney, the worst run company in the world and that includes all the ones I've run and sold over the years ;-) I'm going to add Honeywell to my list too and their POS autopilots. And in the afterlife, hopefully I can catch Al Mooney in hell and explain a thing or two about landing gear design because my lawn mower has considerably better ride. I'm begining to suspect more thought and care went into the design of the servos on my $30 R/C helicopter from Targer than my KFC 150.

Spent a whole day working on my tail dragger endorsment. Fun, fun, fun. SD has the basic Aspen. Not once did it get confused doing loops and rolls today.

Andy

[orangemtl]

Personally, I like my Mooney landing gear: but, maybe it's just me. No doubt with 3000 new planes sold per year, a fleet of engineers, a supportive FAA and the sudden plague-induced death of every product liability lawyer in the country, they'd do a better job. But sadly, those things won't happen. 

Aspen seems to have done a good job, overall. They're no doubt a small company. Times are tight for small companies: but that doesn't say as much about the company as about the economy and GA. As in many things, if you don't like the product, by all means don't buy one.  

Things fail. It's unfortunate. Best way to avoid failed avionics, like avoiding sudden engine failure, is to ride the bus. Until such time as we choose that alternative, we all accept a finite degree of risk.  And, if my glass cockpit fails, it may be a failure of the device, but it's ultimately my error in purchase decisionmaking, and risk assessment. Nobody else's.  

Without the 'lousy' Mooney gear, and 'outdated' steam gauges, and 'thirsty', 'outdated' piston engines, and 'temperamental' electrical systems, we'd all be on the ground. Thanks to all of those dumb, incompetent, outdated, sloppy engineers with their unreliable suppliers, I can fly through the air.  Seems like a more than fair exchange.  In other words: count your blessings, everyone. Fine line between focused technical critiques, and b---ing about the world's imperfections.

[Hank]

Quote: orangemtl

Aspen seems to have done a good job, overall.

I'd love one, but my money is committed elsewhere [paying for the plane, fuel, training, etc. right now].

Without the 'lousy' Mooney gear, and 'outdated' steam gauges, and 'thirsty', 'outdated' piston engines, and 'temperamental' electrical systems, we'd all be on the ground. Thanks to all of those dumb, incompetent, outdated, sloppy engineers with their unreliable suppliers, I can fly through the air.

If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid. Same goes for lousy, outdated, tempermental, etc. Even our 'flimsy' gear with such an 'awful' ride seem to have fewer parts, fewer problems and lower costs than other 'preferred' gear systems. Not so stupid after all, is it?

[orangemtl]

Exactly, Hank. Heck of an engineering feat, to produce a basic framework that carries on for 50 years as in the M20.

Well done, Mr Mooney; well done, indeed.