DIGITAL AIs, Garmin, uAvionix, RC Allen... again

[DCarlton]

Botton Line Up Front:  If I'm only replacing my AI during a pilots side panel overhaul, do I really want a G5 or GI275 or will an all in one AV-30 or RC Allen Digital AI work just fine? 

What are my primary objectives:  Overhaul the pilots side panel - sheet metal, vacuum hoses, P/S tubing, lighting, replace the vacuum regulator and downsize the vacuum system to only the DG and Brittain TC while minimizing down time, cost, fitment, and start up issues.  I'd like to rearrange as few instruments as possible, build the panel on the bench, have it ready to install, pull the old one out, and reinstall the new one with minimum down time.  

So here's the question for folks that have time.  Why not an AV-30 or RC Allen AI solution?  Do I really need a G5 with an external magnetometer and yet another GPS antenna?  The all in one solutions seem to be ideal yet Garmin seems to attract more buyers.  What am I missing? The AV-30 will even take the GPS input from my GNS-430.  

[Ragsf15e]

43 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Botton Line Up Front:  If I'm only replacing my AI during a pilots side panel overhaul, do I really want a G5 or GI275 or will an all in one AV-30 or RC Allen Digital AI work just fine? 

What are my primary objectives:  Overhaul the pilots side panel - sheet metal, vacuum hoses, P/S tubing, lighting, replace the vacuum regulator and downsize the vacuum system to only the DG and Brittain TC while minimizing down time, cost, fitment, and start up issues.  I'd like to rearrange as few instruments as possible, build the panel on the bench, have it ready to install, pull the old one out, and reinstall the new one with minimum down time.  

So here's the question for folks that have time.  Why not an AV-30 or RC Allen AI solution?  Do I really need a G5 with an external magnetometer and yet another GPS antenna?  The all in one solutions seem to be ideal yet Garmin seems to attract more buyers.  What am I missing? The AV-30 will even take the GPS input from my GNS-430.  

You shouldn’t need an additional gps antenna for a g5 or -275.  Is your 430 waas?  If not, possibly glareshield antenna under your panel, but not external.  If you have a waas gps, then you can just use input from that.

I read your priorities, but… if you’re going to do it, do enough to really enjoy it and get the benefits.  That means get 2 g5s or 2 -275s.  No more vacuum, you get a nice new hsi, automatic backup, etc.  possibly you can do the same with an av-30 x 2?  I don’t know, but in either case, Id do enough to see good improvement.  Adding the gmu in the tail or wing isn’t a huge deal.

personally, ive read enough on MS about people having issues with lag in AV-30s that id probably stick with Garmin, but others are happy.  I really like my 2 G5s connected to my -430W.

@PT20J has both products (av-20s), maybe he can comment?

[PT20J]

5 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

@PT20J has both products (av-20s), maybe he can comment?

I bought the AV-20-S as a tie breaker in case the G3X and G5 ever don't agree, and it's good for that. I think that the AV-30 is a better instrument, but I don't know for sure. Hopefully others will be along with comments from actual experience.

If I only flew the airplane VFR, I frankly wouldn't care much. But, if I flew it IFR, I would want something that I felt comfortable betting my life on and would choose dual G5s. The GI 275s are newer and nicer, but with a lot of bells and whistles they have lower battery life and I like the G5's battery life better. Either option will drive the GFC 500 if the current autopilot becomes unmaintainable and you need to upgrade it.

Skip

[DCarlton]

27 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

You shouldn’t need an additional gps antenna for a g5 or -275.  Is your 430 waas?  If not, possibly glareshield antenna under your panel, but not external.  If you have a waas gps, then you can just use input from that.

I read your priorities, but… if you’re going to do it, do enough to really enjoy it and get the benefits.  That means get 2 g5s or 2 -275s.  No more vacuum, you get a nice new hsi, automatic backup, etc.  possibly you can do the same with an av-30 x 2?  I don’t know, but in either case, Id do enough to see good improvement.  Adding the gmu in the tail or wing isn’t a huge deal.

personally, ive read enough on MS about people having issues with lag in AV-30s that id probably stick with Garmin, but others are happy.  I really like my 2 G5s connected to my -430W.

@PT20J has both products (av-20s), maybe he can comment?

My 430 was overhauled about a year ago by Garmin and it's in great condition but it's non-WAAS.  Would I prefer WAAS sure; but I've flown with what I have now or less for decades.  I'd just like to freshen up what I have and fly for a few more years.  I don't really need more bells and whistles.  My Brittain AP also still works fine; that's the reason I'm keeping the vacuum DG.  I'm sure I could interface a G5 to the Brittain AP but really don't want the hassle of trying to get someone to sign it off.  I bounce around on this; right now I just want to fly while I still can and minimize downtime.  BTW, I think the lag issue was with the AV30 as a DG, not AI (not sure).  

Edited February 14, 2023 by DCarlton
Added comment about lag.

[DCarlton]

1 minute ago, PT20J said:

I bought the AV-20-S as a tie breaker in case the G3X and G5 ever don't agree, and it's good for that. I think that the AV-30 is a better instrument, but I don't know for sure. Hopefully others will be along with comments from actual experience.

If I only flew the airplane VFR, I frankly wouldn't care much. But, if I flew it IFR, I would want something that I felt comfortable betting my life on and would choose dual G5s. The GI 275s are newer and nicer, but with a lot of bells and whistles they have lower battery life and I like the G5's battery life better. Either option will drive the GFC 500 if the current autopilot becomes unmaintainable and you need to upgrade it.

Skip

One thing I've noticed is that the dual G5 stack doesn't even fit well in the older 60's panels.  They're really crammed in.  If I go with G5(s), I want them recessed mounted.  The AV-30 just seems so simple and easy and you don't have the additional wiring and connectors between the unit and the magnetometer.  The installers seem to like Garmin because they're familiar; I'm not sure they're better in my case.  My flying is light IFR but some IFR.  Any AI failing is ugly. 

[ohdub]

I have an AV-30, it works very well for me and I do fly IFR. I kept my vacuum AI as a backup, I like that it isn't dependant on the electrical system, battery life or software.

If there is a chance you'll eventually upgrade your autopilot to a GFC500, then a Garmin AI would make sense.

Steve

[DCarlton]

2 hours ago, ohdub said:

I have an AV-30, it works very well for me and I do fly IFR. I kept my vacuum AI as a backup, I like that it isn't dependant on the electrical system, battery life or software.

If there is a chance you'll eventually upgrade your autopilot to a GFC500, then a Garmin AI would make sense.

Steve

I do have the Brittain TC as a potential backup in the event of an AI failure; although flying IFR with a TC is not the best.  

[MoonFlyer68]

I have dual AV-30'S in my plane now and absolutely love them.  As so many others have noted, the DG is an issue but the company seems hopeful the magnetomiter will get signed of by the FAA soon. Until then,  I have it interfaced with my WAAS GPS and it is great. Of course when installed with a temperature probe you can also get TAS as well as DA.  If you haven't tried it yet, they have a small simulator that can run on windows or Mac.

If you do install it, I highly recommend running the wires that connect to the computer if they update the software. Makes life much easier.

[McMooney]

10 hours ago, DCarlton said:

Botton Line Up Front:  If I'm only replacing my AI during a pilots side panel overhaul, do I really want a G5 or GI275 or will an all in one AV-30 or RC Allen Digital AI work just fine? 

What are my primary objectives:  Overhaul the pilots side panel - sheet metal, vacuum hoses, P/S tubing, lighting, replace the vacuum regulator and downsize the vacuum system to only the DG and Brittain TC while minimizing down time, cost, fitment, and start up issues.  I'd like to rearrange as few instruments as possible, build the panel on the bench, have it ready to install, pull the old one out, and reinstall the new one with minimum down time.  

So here's the question for folks that have time.  Why not an AV-30 or RC Allen AI solution?  Do I really need a G5 with an external magnetometer and yet another GPS antenna?  The all in one solutions seem to be ideal yet Garmin seems to attract more buyers.  What am I missing? The AV-30 will even take the GPS input from my GNS-430.  

Same boat, my AI took a piss couple weeks back, finally decided on the g5's due to availability and upgrade path to the g3x and gfc500.

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by McMooney

[McMooney]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:14 PM, McMooney said:

Same boat, my AI took a piss couple weeks back, finally decided on the g5's due to availability and upgrade path to the g3x and gfc500.

 

 

 

Just finished the magnetic survey for the gmu-11, what a pain. 

 

Tip:  take the magnetic tablet/phone pencil out of your pocket before starting the survey, the gmu is super sensitive.  was totally confused why i kept failing when trying to turn on switches and things.

Edited February 21, 2023 by McMooney