Mind your Battery Minder

[Pinecone]

The downside of tires that last a long time is that they have less traction (harder rubber).  So longer braking distances.

[Will.iam]

3 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I try to imagine that the brake pedal is connected to a petcock in the fuel system.  Any time you have your foot on the brake pedal, the petcock is open -- dribbling fuel out onto the pavement.  Sometimes other drivers get frustrated with me.  

No imagination required in the camry hybrid they have a big gauge same size as the speedometer but instead of the label RPM it has MPG. As you push the throttle down you see the needle swing into the single digits from the start as you are not moving but as the car increases with speed you see MPG go into the double digits even if you hold the same throttle position. Also interesting is at idle coasting to a stop at about 35mph the needle comes off the 99mpg and slowly rises to 0mpg as the car comes to a stop all while not touching the throttle. I can do a way better job that the cruise control by just wedging my foot between the throttle and the side carpet. Keeping the throttle constant and alliwing the speed to slow down going up a hill and speeding up going down a hill. The cruise control going down the hill at idle does not offset the stabbing of the throttle to maintain speed going up a hill. 

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

While that may work to test the battery, it’s probably not good for the avionics, they are made for 14 or 28V and running on lower voltage usually means more heat.

Best to take the batteries out and use some form of dummy load, light bulbs, car headlights for a 12V airplane is fine. technically they are not perfect as the voltage decreases so does the load, but they are certainly good enough.

Attached photo is a light bulb dummy load used for Certification test flight where we had to load the Starter / Generator to max load. They were 800W ea if memory serves and in the hopper that we had to fill with water to keep it from catching fire, but everything else was bunches of $$$..

If the OP had Concorde’s, the self discharge rate for them even in cold weather is in many months, meaning if they were good, then they would start the airplane months after it had last run, the battery minders are most likely masking bad batteries.

 

Again if my electronics and avionics can’t handle running off the battery for an hour then i would rather find that out on the ground than in IMC flying and get it fixed or replaced. 
besides those avionics have a voltage range far bigger than where the alternator and battery run. If the capacitors were rated for only 28v tops the first transient voltage spike above 28v would blow the capacitor. most likely the capacitor as well as the IC chips are rated up to 32 volts and definitely go down to 24v or the unit would quit on a 24v battery. If i had to guess the unit would quit at about 20v or so. In fact some of the avionics are duel rated 12 to 24v it’s sometimes a switch on the unit Or It is just the ic chips and capacitors can handle a large enough range to work at either voltage level. And heat is always at higher voltage and amp levels than lower levels for integrated chips. Even when overclocking cpu’s to get extra speed to clean up the signal you got to up the voltage which ups the heat that the chip is generating. 

[N201MKTurbo]

12 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Again if my electronics and avionics can’t handle running off the battery for an hour then i would rather find that out on the ground than in IMC flying and get it fixed or replaced. 
besides those avionics have a voltage range far bigger than where the alternator and battery run. If the capacitors were rated for only 28v tops the first transient voltage spike above 28v would blow the capacitor. most likely the capacitor as well as the IC chips are rated up to 32 volts and definitely go down to 24v or the unit would quit on a 24v battery. If i had to guess the unit would quit at about 20v or so. In fact some of the avionics are duel rated 12 to 24v it’s sometimes a switch on the unit Or It is just the ic chips and capacitors can handle a large enough range to work at either voltage level. 

The capacitors aren't the problem. Most modern electronics have switching power supplies that will buck or boost the input voltage to what is required for the circuitry. So the caps will never see voltages that are out of tolerance. As the supply voltage drops, the required current increases, which accelerates the battery drain. There is a point where the boost regulators cannot boost the input voltage enough and they will shut down. This will usually do no harm. This usually happens around 8-9 volts in a 12V system and 16-18 in a 24V system. Some avionics have universal power supplies and 24V avionics may keep working down to 9V. It is possible that the current draw may get so high that it will blow the breaker before it gets to its shutoff voltage.

[N201MKTurbo]

I have had a few electrical failures in my 6000 hours of flying. I have learned to put the gear down at the first sign of trouble. If you are IFR I wouldn't do that, I would resign myself to cranking them down.

[T. Peterson]

On 1/8/2023 at 9:58 PM, carusoam said:

Very few pireps on the Gill sealed batteries…

There are a few around here… but not very old yet…

Looking forward to Gill having a great battery… Concorde needs the competition.   0.6amus grumble grumble grumble…. 
 

Go capitalism!

Best regards,

-a-

“Go capitalism!”

OORAH!!

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I sold my Tacoma, it had 186000 miles. It still had the factory brakes and only the second set of tires, which still had plenty of tread.

Back in 2007 I started practicing hypermiling and still do. Using your brakes is just pouring gas on the ground. You can tell if you are driving efficiently. If you get better mileage in town than on the highway, you are driving efficiently. I got my son and wife to do it. My wife went from an average MPG of 17 to 24 in her Highlander. My son has an F150 and he can get 23 MPG if he tries. He doesn't try that much.

That's not any fun, though. 

You should get a hybrid.   Application of the brakes recovers the kinetic energy (well, some of it, more if you're careful), to use during the next acceleration.     My Fusion has a "braking coach" that tells you what percentage of the kinetic energy you recovered whenever you brake to a stop.   It's kinda cool.

And +1 that tires that last longer don't grip as well, and you may need grip when something stupid starts unfolding in front of you.   Same if you do much off-roading in AZ, you may really need the grip.  It's all a tradeoff.   Race tires last a weekend. 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have had a few electrical failures in my 6000 hours of flying. I have learned to put the gear down at the first sign of trouble. If you are IFR I wouldn't do that, I would resign myself to cranking them down.

I never thought about it in the 210 when the alternator quit, and ended up having to pump them down, which worried me, I could see the mains, but didn't know the nose was down for sure.

You learn I guess

[A64Pilot]

You guys have all that hyper mileing wrong, I know from watching others that your supposed to continue to accelerate into the red light until it’s time to brake, so the correct way is to take your foot off the accelerator and begin braking immediately.

Average person may cry about fuel prices but has no idea.

Lady that worked at the FBO in Americus was sure her Suburban got better mileage on the first half tank of gas, she could prove it by how many more miles it would go.

So her solution was to fill up when the gauge read half a tank and save gas. You couldn’t convince her otherwise.

[N201MKTurbo]

5 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

You guys have all that hyper mileing wrong, I know from watching others that your supposed to continue to accelerate into the red light until it’s time to brake, so the correct way is to take your foot off the accelerator and begin braking immediately.

That would be fine if there weren't any other cars on the road. Unfortunately, driving is kind of a social thing.

[Pinecone]

You can still lift off the accelerator early and start slowing.  I find it funny that so many people pass me at that point, the hit the brakes, stop and sit.  About the time the light turns green, I roll up and keep on rolling.

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

You can still lift off the accelerator early and start slowing.  I find it funny that so many people pass me at that point, the hit the brakes, stop and sit.  About the time the light turns green, I roll up and keep on rolling.

Those are the best. Timing the light so you don’t have to touch the brakes and whizzing past all the cars that are sitting there just as the light turns green. Sure you hear them coming as they race past you again only to dump the brakes at the next light.  Most lights are timed for the speed limit posted in between the lights usually 30 or 35 mph. while true doubling your speed will also time the lights, police officers are not amused especially when you explain that fascinating fact detail to them. :)

[T. Peterson]

3 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Those are the best. Timing the light so you don’t have to touch the brakes and whizzing past all the cars that are sitting there just as the light turns green. Sure you hear them coming as they race past you again only to dump the brakes at the next light.  Most lights are timed for the speed limit posted in between the lights usually 30 or 35 mph. while true doubling your speed will also time the lights, police officers are not amused especially when you explain that fascinating fact detail to them.

Timing lights is great, but beware of the car in crossing traffic that is pushing a yellow light.

[N201MKTurbo]

6 minutes ago, T. Peterson said:

Timing lights is great, but beware of the car in crossing traffic that is pushing a yellow light.

Especially on a motorcycle…..

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

You can still lift off the accelerator early and start slowing.  I find it funny that so many people pass me at that point, the hit the brakes, stop and sit.  About the time the light turns green, I roll up and keep on rolling.

Called pulse and glide, ideally you feather the pedal so the car isn’t being decelerated by the engine, or in the case of a Prius or EV’s regen braking.

The Prius and a Tesla has a display that shows if your consuming power or in regen, ideally you don’t want either.

Best I could get out of the Prius was 72.6 MPG over a 100+ mile trip, but that was back country roads because unless light multi lane traffic you don’t want to be that guy, you are creeping along
The other recent drives were my Daughter who like her Mother has a lead foot.

 

[Fly Boomer]

11 minutes ago, T. Peterson said:

Timing lights is great, but beware of the car in crossing traffic that is pushing a yellow light.

That’s why there is a delay of several seconds.

[A64Pilot]

2 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

That’s why there is a delay of several seconds.

You still get idiots that blatantly run a red light, one that’s been red. Brought my Wife’s attention to that the other day, I said look at this idiot, only for the car 30 yards behind them to follow them through too.

You don’t ride a motorcycle defensively, you have to be offensive, that’s not to mean be aggressive, but unless you take extraordinary measures you will be run over.

Only thing worse is a bicycle

[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, A64Pilot said:

You still get idiots that blatantly run a red light, one that’s been red. Brought my Wife’s attention to that the other day, I said look at this idiot, only for the car 30 yards behind them to follow them through too.

You don’t ride a motorcycle defensively, you have to be offensive, that’s not to mean be aggressive, but unless you take extraordinary measures you will be run over.

Only thing worse is a bicycle

Number one thing I worried about was getting smooshed from behind while waiting for a light.

[A64Pilot]

2 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Number one thing I worried about was getting smooshed from behind while waiting for a light.

I’ve had that almost happen a couple of times, but only in our Miata and the CTS-V, but not in anything else.

I think I know why, the Miata and the V are manual cars, so your sitting at the light without the brake lights being on, people don’t see brake lights and think your moving.

That’s speculation of course.

The Miata I have the third brake light flash rapidly for about one sec then go solid, so I watch if they don’t look like they are slowing I pump the brake a couple of times and get that light to flash at them. I hate the ones people have that keep flashing, and as they are in automatics they have the brake on the whole time they are stopped.

Both the brake light and head light flash on my bike, to get a rapid flash you have to have LED’s, regular bulbs just take too much time to fully light up.

[Vance Harral]

Back to the "poor man's battery capacity test", purchase of a not-too-expensive clamp-on ammeter and a little data gathering is an eye opener for more than just checking battery health.  Having recently been through a DIY G5 HSI installation, we performed the load test described in the installation manual, and it was really helpful in understanding just what kind of load each circuit in the aircraft presents.  I previously had only guesses about this, and a load-shedding plan based on them.  Some of my guesses were right: obviously pitot heat and incandescent external lights use a lot of juice.  But other devices I planned to turn off in the event of an electrical failure turned out to be a bad tradeoff: lots of distraction in not having the equipment, in exchange for only 1-2 minutes of additional operating time before the battery (assuming its healthy) has bled out 80% of its rated capacity.

[N201MKTurbo]

On 1/10/2023 at 7:59 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

I have had a few electrical failures in my 6000 hours of flying. I have learned to put the gear down at the first sign of trouble. If you are IFR I wouldn't do that, I would resign myself to cranking them down.

Considering it takes a few minutes of concerted effort to crank the gear down. Where exactly would you do that on an instrument flight while dealing with your electrical failure in the soup?

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Considering it takes a few minutes of concerted effort to crank the gear down. Where exactly would you do that on an instrument flight while dealing with your electrical failure in the soup?

Somewhere around the IAF on a nice “T” RNAV apch?  Probably want to be really sure you’ll be able to break out above mins before getting it down…

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

Somewhere around the IAF on a nice “T” RNAV apch?  Probably want to be really sure you’ll be able to break out above mins before getting it down…

An autopilot would be good. Hand flying in the soup and cranking it down while trying to fly a procedure would be overwhelming. 
 

I was thinking of declaring an emergency, so you get to make the decisions and fly a vector away from the FAF while you were cranking it down, then start the approach after it is down.

[Ragsf15e]

40 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

An autopilot would be good. Hand flying in the soup and cranking it down while trying to fly a procedure would be overwhelming. 
 

I was thinking of declaring an emergency, so you get to make the decisions and fly a vector away from the FAF while you were cranking it down, then start the approach after it is down.

Yeah for sure.  Id say most people are a little hesitant to declare an emergency.  I’m opposite that.  If I’m imc and the airplane isn’t working perfectly, I’m declaring.  You can also get a block and no gyro vectors to final while you’re cranking.  Someone else watching your altitude is a good thing.

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Considering it takes a few minutes of concerted effort to crank the gear down. Where exactly would you do that on an instrument flight while dealing with your electrical failure in the soup?

Great question!

Me, actual IFR, I'm declaring an emergency, getting delaying vectors while I sort things out and getting the gear down and then getting a vector. I don't want to be rushed and I really want to avoid a missed approach.