looking for a certified flight instructor

[RCW]

I am lookin for a CFI with experience  in Cassna T210’ sand Mooney Acclaim’s. I am 70 years oldand was an instrument rated pilot with 764 hours  total time,  I have not flown since February 2001.  I want to get current and learn to fly a Mooney acclaim.  I would like to start in late January or early February of 2022

 

[toto]

This is probably a good place to start:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/37498-consolidated-listing-of-mooney-cfi-cfiis-for-checkouts-by-area-and-model-types/

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:32 PM, RCW said:

I am lookin for a CFI with experience  in Cassna T210’ sand Mooney Acclaim’s. I am 70 years oldand was an instrument rated pilot with 764 hours  total time,  I have not flown since February 2001.  I want to get current and learn to fly a Mooney acclaim.  I would like to start in late January or early February of 2022

 

The insurance market has changed a lot in the past 22 years. You'll probably find the Acclaim easy to learn, but the over 70 insurance market is getting much tougher on retractables. Where are you located?

[kortopates]

Instruction won’t be possible till you own an insured Acclaim. I don’t believe there is a rental Acclaim anywhere in the country. Have you found one you are getting ready to purchase?
Since you haven’t flown in over 20 years i suggest you first get current in a trainer at a local school - go for a low wing design though like an Archer or even Arrow. Your new to you Acclaim isn’t the best choice to re-learn how to land.

I am not an insurance guy, but I’d think being able to show a current flight review, and medical and 30-50 yrs in the last 6 months will be essential to getting insured in the Acclaim. But suggest talking to an insurance person soonest, right after getting that medical, to align expectations on what it will take.

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[A64Pilot]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The insurance market has changed a lot in the past 22 years. You'll probably find the Acclaim easy to learn, but the over 70 insurance market is getting much tougher on retractables. Where are you located?

Neighbor sold his V35 and bought a C-182 due to that. I don’t understand why he just didn’t keep the Bo and self insure.

I’m thinking this Gentleman is thinking of some kind of club or shared ownership of something, who owns a T210 and an Acclaim?

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Neighbor sold his V35 and bought a C-182 due to that. I don’t understand why he just didn’t keep the Bo and self insure.

How do you self-insure for your heirs on the liability caused by the accident? Example: airplane flies into a house with a family inside or an elementary school

[A64Pilot]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

How do you self-insure for your heirs on the liability caused by the accident? Example: airplane flies into a house with a family inside or an elementary school

Is there some kind of law that I’m unaware of that limits liability to insured amount?

 

[LANCECASPER]

4 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Is there some kind of law that I’m unaware of that limits liability to insured amount?

 

No but most attorneys aim at the limits of the policy - since they know that is collectable.

[kortopates]

11 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Is there some kind of law that I’m unaware of that limits liability to insured amount?

 

I think the point is that if you self insure for liability you're risking your entire net worth that would go to your heirs. Self insuring for the hull value, which is what I expect the only part some self insure for, is just risking the value of the plane.

[A64Pilot]

29 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

No but most attorneys aim at the limits of the policy - since they know that is collectable.

Using that logic, best way to avoid a lawsuit is to not have insurence, and supposedly they can’t find out how much insurence you have. I worried about raising my auto liability limits because I thought that would guarantee a TV Lawyer, but was told they don’t know how much insurence you have.

Neighbor has rental property, renter slipped and fell on the sidewalk in the rain, had a nasty bruise that somehow got infected or something had to have an operation, pictures looked horrible, I mean the whole side of her leg was open and had no skin.

So of course she got one of the TV lawyers to sue, my friend contacted his insurence to find out that he wasn’t covered. Insurence person said don’t worry about it, once they find your not covered it almost certain there will be no lawsuit.

Insurence person was right.

I figured at least he would lose his rental property, but with apparently no big cash settlement almost a slam dunk, TV Lawyer wasn’t interested.

I carry insurence on the Mooney, because the possibility of gear failure concerns me, but I don’t on the 140 as it’s insurence is high for whatever reason, even though I have thousands of hours tailwheel and no claim history.

Usually the answer people give is not what if you crash into a school, but what if you taxi into a business jet.

I figure the times, places and wx I fly in makes crashing into a house or school or taxiing into a biz jet about as likely as being hit by a meteor. I don’t fly instruments anymore, not that I wasn’t good at it I was, but I know I wouldn’t do it enough to maintain proficiency, I’ve not flown nights in a long time even though I have thousands of hours night, and I don’t takeoff or land over houses or schools. The 140 doesn’t even have ADSB out so it’s not going into busy airports in towns with approach paths over neighborhoods, but it does visit lots of grass strips for pancake breakfasts etc.

Guy with the V-35, now 182 is my neighbor, we fly the same places, I doubt he’s even instrument rated. His other airplane is a Legend Cub with glass cockpit and an Autopilot.

I’m no Lawyer but I’m sure if I worried about my Wife being destitute because I crashed into a School, I’d transfer the assets to her.

[LANCECASPER]

20 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Using that logic, best way to avoid a lawsuit is to not have insurence.

Neighbor has rental property, renter slipped and fell on the sidewalk in the rain, had a nasty bruise that somehow got infected or something had to have an operation, pictures looked horrible, I mean the whole side of her leg was open and had no skin.

So of course she got one of the TV lawyers to sue, my friend contacted his insurence to find out that he wasn’t covered. Insurence person said don’t worry about it, once they find your not covered it almost certain there will be no lawsuit.

Insurence person was right.

I figured at least he would lose his rental property, but with apparently no big cash settlement almost a slam dunk, TV Lawyer wasn’t interested.

I carry insurence on the Mooney, because the possibility of gear failure concerns me, but I don’t on the 140 as it’s insurence is high for whatever reason, even though I have thousands of hours tailwheel and no claim history.

Usually the answer people give is not what if you crash into a school, but what if you taxi into a business jet.

I figure the times, places and wx I fly in makes crashing into a house or school or taxiing into a biz jet about as likely as being hit by a meteor. I don’t fly instruments anymore, not that I wasn’t good at it I was, but I know I wouldn’t do it enough to maintain proficiency, I’ve not flown nights in a long time even though I have thousands of hours night, and I don’t takeoff or land over houses or schools. The 140 doesn’t even have ADSB out so it’s not going into busy airports in towns with approach paths over neighborhoods, but it does visit lots of grass strips for pancake breakfasts etc.

Guy with the V-35, now 182 is my neighbor, we fly the same places, I doubt he’s even instrument rated. His other airplane is a Legend Cub with glass cockpit and an Autopilot.

I’m no Lawyer but I’m sure if I worried about my Wife being destitute because I crashed into a School, I’d transfer the assets to her.

Actually you don't have insurence, you have insurance.     You are almost the only person who spells it that way on Mooneyspace. (https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=insurence&quick=1)

 

Giving whoever comes after you the limits of your policy is usually enough to make them settle and go away, rather than them waging a long battle to come after your entire net worth.

How about just the cost of defending yourself, which if you survive any accident is a huge cost? Your insurance company is obligated to defend you.

What about the cost of retrieving a repairable airplane when you have to land engine-out in a field?  That can run into 10's of 1000's of dollars. There is a provision in the policy to cover that.

There are many reasons to carry insurance other that protecting the value of the hull. Self-insuring is definitely an option, but anyone that does it really needs to think out all of the possibilities and make sure it's the right choice for themselves and their estate.

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

I think the point is that if you self insure for liability you're risking your entire net worth that would go to your heirs. Self insuring for the hull value, which is what I expect the only part some self insure for, is just risking the value of the plane.

Self insure is a misnomer, it actually means no insurance. 

You’re risking your entire net worth anyway. 

In the example of plowing into a school, do you think the Lawyer(s) are willing to split that 1 Mil 10 ways, then only get half? Surely they go for everything there is?

Recovery wise neighborhood covers that, not a month ago we got one neighbors SeaRay out of Lake Weir, seems they don’t survive water landings with the wheels down. It happens very rarely, but if it’s just landing in a field or whatever we get them.

You have to recover it if it’s repairable or not, the SeaRay? It’s a write off. They don’t do water landings well wheels down. He had insurance but it was a whole lot less complicated if we just got it than the insurance company.

With one person helping I can pull the wings on a 140 and have it on a trailer in two hours if we aren’t in a hurry, an hour if we are, what takes longest is draining he fuel. Pull the wing root fairing, disconnect flap jackshaft and aileron cables, fuel line. Wing is held on with two bolts and V strut three. Wing weighs less than 100 lbs, airplane without wings maybe 800 tops but likely less 

[A64Pilot]

When I turn 70 and if I’m still capable of flying safely and if the law hasn’t changed I’m not likely to sell my Mooney, I just won’t have insurance.

But then I own it, not the bank so I have that option.

We are probably 100 times more likely to hurt others driving our Auto’s than flying, and yet Auto insurance for well over 70 isn’t a problem, even 90 isn’t a problem

[A64Pilot]

41 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Actually you don't have insurence, you have insurance.     You are almost the only person who spells it that way on Mooneyspace. (https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=insurence&quick=1)

 

Giving whoever comes after you the limits of your policy is usually enough to make them settle and go away, rather than them waging a long battle to come after your entire net worth.

I’m curious why you make that statement and don’t understand that in the absence of insurance that it’s likely they just go away, because your correct it would be a long battle, not an assured win, and I assume be a jury trial. 

But as anything can be bought I’m betting money that insurance to cover you in a lawsuit can be purchased too.

But do you realize what you guys are abdicating is that no one over the age of 70 is allowed to fly a Mooney?

But rolling down the highway in a Diesel pusher Bus towing an SUV is fine?

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

But do you realize what you guys are abdicating is that no one over the age of 70 is allowed to fly a Mooney?

No one here is advocating that anyone over 70 shouldn't fly a Mooney. What started all of this is that I happened to mention that the insurance market for retractables for those over 70 is getting tougher. 

[A64Pilot]

Tougher is one word, I’m hearing that it’s prohibitively expensive and increases exponentially each year after 70, so 70 is pretty much apparently a limit. 

Although I’m thinking it may be 75, not 70. Based on family history personally I don’t really expect to be around then anyway. But others apparently do well.

Jack, the old guy in this picture was 100. He was a P-38 driver and flew a P-47 in the European theatre.

He flew very well, a day or two later they took him up in a Steerman and he flew the whole time, takeoffs and landings even loops and snaps.

He hurt his back doing snaps though and Jack went down hill quickly

But if he could fly aerobatics at 100 I’m sure a Mooney at 70 would have been easy.

Steve Wolf another neighbor is building a 60% scale P-47 in Jacks memory.

 

[Steve0715]

Any good tax attorney can help you shield your assets.  No need to risk any more than a self limiting value.  

[Marauder]

Tougher is one word, I’m hearing that it’s prohibitively expensive and increases exponentially each year after 70, so 70 is pretty much apparently a limit. 
Although I’m thinking it may be 75, not 70. Based on family history personally I don’t really expect to be around then anyway. But others apparently do well.
Jack, the old guy in this picture was 100. He was a P-38 driver and flew a P-47 in the European theatre.
He flew very well, a day or two later they took him up in a Steerman and he flew the whole time, takeoffs and landings even loops and snaps.
He hurt his back doing snaps though and Jack went down hill quickly
But if he could fly aerobatics at 100 I’m sure a Mooney at 70 would have been easy.
Steve Wolf another neighbor is building a 60% scale P-47 in Jacks memory.
 

Parker can probably provide better clarity when age becomes a factor for insurers. What I do know is that I personally know four 70+ Mooney owners who saw significant increases and one who was told they were uninsurable when they hit 70. I don’t know if they had “priors” or if there were factors involved.

Two elected to sell and get out of aviation completely. One moved to a fixed gear plane to be able to obtain insurance and the third went through (I think he said double digit) insurers to find one that would take him on.

As for going without insurance, talking to a good lawyer probably would be a good first step. What I can tell you, from personal experience, if they have any inkling you have assets, there are a number of lawyers who will make your life miserable in their attempt to find compensation for their client(s).

“Self insured” works for large corporations who have financial means to payout if required.


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[DCarlton]

If you’re insured with the same company for 30 years in the same or similar airplane, is 70 still a likely tripwire for cancellation or rate escalation ?  

[N201MKTurbo]

Wouldn’t putting all your assets in a trust shield your heirs from any liability?

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, DCarlton said:

If you’re insured with the same company for 30 years in the same or similar airplane, is 70 still a likely tripwire for cancellation or rate escalation ?  

That has not been my experience.  I've been with the same company since I bought my plane 30 years ago.  My insurance went up $350 over the previous year.  Although not required, I do the Wings Basic and Advanced every year, and stay very current with flight instructing.  I have found difficulty getting added on as an additional insured with waiver of subrogation.  I do have flight instructor insurance.  However, I have found it necessary to have my attorney of 40 years, one of the sharpest guys I have ever met, draw up an Agreement of Waiver and Release of Liability for Flight Instructing for those times when the add on is off the table.  It pretty much covers everything under the sun.  While it is no guarantee of not being sued, it would certainly be a discouragement for an attorney to try.    Additionally, all my flight instruction is conducted within my C Corporation and I meticulously maintain its documentation.  

If you want to stay sharp both in life and in flying as you age, I find flying and teaching instruments to be highly beneficial.

[A64Pilot]

9 hours ago, Marauder said:

As for going without insurance, talking to a good lawyer probably would be a good first step. What I can tell you, from personal experience, if they have any inkling you have assets, there are a number of lawyers who will make your life miserable in their attempt to find compensation for their client(s).
 

Yes, any veil can be pierced, or said another way anything one Lawyer can do another can undo.

But we are talking about difficult, meaning expensive, and often long time work here with a significant possibility of losing. We are I believe in the realm of a Law team hired by someone of significant means, because the person hiring has a motivation. 

Not the average personal injury law team, they are after easy and fast because in the end the profit margin is higher

Its like everything though, you can never reduce the odds to zero, but you can significantly reduce them possibly to an acceptable level of risk.

But doing nothing leaves you at the highest level of risk.

[BDPetersen]

Just give me a bucket of sand big enough for my head.

[Parker_Woodruff]

11 hours ago, DCarlton said:

If you’re insured with the same company for 30 years in the same or similar airplane, is 70 still a likely tripwire for cancellation or rate escalation ?  

Not if you're with the right company.  The issue is being with a the right carrier before age 70 and making sure you're flying 50+ hours per year at age 70 and later.

There are options, even for pilots getting into ownership after age 70.

People just need a broker that will give them the options and help them make a plan for ongoing insurability.

Sometimes that means owning a plane below a certain value, depending on when you get into the ownership game.

[DCarlton]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Not if you're with the right company.  The issue is being with a the right carrier before age 70 and making sure you're flying 50+ hours per year at age 70 and later.

There are options, even for pilots getting into ownership after age 70.

People just need a broker that will give them the options and help them make a plan for ongoing insurability.

Sometimes that means owning a plane below a certain value, depending on when you get into the ownership game.

Thanks.  I think I'll have this conversation with my current insurance company if I decide to make a move; I've been with them for 20 years and so far they've treated me well.  I've got a few years to go before I have to worry about it, but the discussion might impact whether I keep flying what I have or trade in the next few years.