Dog house to silicone baffle?

[gtsio520]

Hello I was wondering if anyone knew of a kit to replace my doghouse baffling to a "traditional" silicone style baffling? I have a 64 M20E.

Edited December 5, 2022 by gtsio520

[Hank]

I'd love the same change for my '70 C!!

[David Lloyd]

A few years back, someone posted pics of his new cowling install on a C.  I recognized the Van’s Aircraft baffles. He later acknowledged using Van’s. A willing mechanic and appropriate paperwork….

[takair]

I’ve looked at doing it in my 64 E every time I have to rebuild some part of the dog house.  I think the 64 would need either a new cowl or some reinforcement.  It is very thin sheet metal.  Later model Es, with silicone seal baffle had reinforced upper cowl.  Without it, I think the sheet metal would crack, not unlike the doghouse.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

A few years back, someone posted pics of his new cowling install on a C.  I recognized the Van’s Aircraft baffles. He later acknowledged using Van’s. A willing mechanic and appropriate paperwork….

That’s @Sabremech those baffles along with the new cowl he’s developing for older models.

[hammdo]

I bought his plane and they are wonderful!  David is working on a version 2 of the cowling but I'm not 100% sure he'll use the Van's Baffles again.

-Don

[Hank]

5 hours ago, takair said:

I’ve looked at doing it in my 64 E every time I have to rebuild some part of the dog house.  I think the 64 would need either a new cowl or some reinforcement.  It is very thin sheet metal.  Later model Es, with silicone seal baffle had reinforced upper cowl.  Without it, I think the sheet metal would crack, not unlike the doghouse.

Do you think this is enough reinforcement to prevent cracking?

I'd rather not replace the whole cowl, just the doghouse. 

[takair]

8 minutes ago, Hank said:

Do you think this is enough reinforcement to prevent cracking?

I'd rather not replace the whole cowl, just the doghouse. 

Yes, that’s what the reinforced version looks like.  Mine is just ~.032 and would bulge and crack at the screws.  You would just have to get the seals to align and it seems like it would work well.  I would think it’s somewhere between a field approval and a minor alteration.  Did all C models have the dog house?  E models transitioned from it.

[Hank]

1 minute ago, takair said:

Yes, that’s what the reinforced version looks like.  Mine is just ~.032 and would bulge and crack at the screws.  You would just have to get the seals to align and it seems like it would work well.  I would think it’s somewhere between a field approval and a minor alteration.  Did all C models have the dog house?  E models transitioned from it.

I don't know how many Cs have doghouse, but this is the original cowling on mine. While @Sabremech's conversion is appealing, I don't want to give up the large removable cheeks on both sides. Taking off the.lower cowl is something I've done once since 2007, and i don't want to have to do it every oil change or annual!

[EricJ]

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

I don't know how many Cs have doghouse, but this is the original cowling on mine. While @Sabremech's conversion is appealing, I don't want to give up the large removable cheeks on both sides. Taking off the.lower cowl is something I've done once since 2007, and i don't want to have to do it every oil change or annual!

If it's done like a J model cowl it's not too difficult to take the entire lower cowl off and replace it by yourself.   I've never thought of it as much of a problem for oil changes or any other maintenance.   The only real issues are when you forget to disconnect a cowl flap when taking it off or pinch the landing light wires when putting it back on. 

[takair]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

If it's done like a J model cowl it's not too difficult to take the entire lower cowl off and replace it by yourself.   I've never thought of it as much of a problem for oil changes or any other maintenance.   The only real issues are when you forget to disconnect a cowl flap when taking it off or pinch the landing light wires when putting it back on. 

Unfortunately they are nothing like the J. It is something to avoid pre-J….especially since it beats up the unobtainable inlet duct.

[takair]

23 minutes ago, Hank said:

I don't know how many Cs have doghouse, but this is the original cowling on mine. While @Sabremech's conversion is appealing, I don't want to give up the large removable cheeks on both sides. Taking off the.lower cowl is something I've done once since 2007, and i don't want to have to do it every oil change or annual!

It appears to me that 1967 and on had silicone baffles.  It also appears that you have the cowl that is meant for them. Is it possible someone actually went backwards on your plane and added the dog house?  At a quick glance, it seems that you could do this as a log entry to match the manual for your year.  

[FlyingDude]

I tried to install J style baffles on my 67 E some time ago. I wrote Mooney Tech Center and they sent me the drawings for my plane. Though the year corresponds to the open-top baffles, the drawings were dog style. Having other 1st world problems in life, I gave up.

[steingar]

I actually don't see the big whip.  The doghouse is just sheet metal, any competent A&P could fabricate one.  Mine's a mess, but fixing it is a long way down my list of priorities, and it doesn't matter anyway.  My Mooney will soon be in the hands of another.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, steingar said:

I actually don't see the big whip.  The doghouse is just sheet metal, any competent A&P could fabricate one.  Mine's a mess, 

Many of our doghouses are messes,and it's tough to find someone willing and able to rebuild it. The doghouse is very important for cooling air flow across the engine--cracks and gaps negatively affect performance. 

[gtsio520]

So no one knows of a silicone style set of baffles for the mooneys

[takair]

1 hour ago, gtsio520 said:

So no one knows of a silicone style set of baffles for the mooneys

I am not aware of an off the shelf solution for a 64 Mooney.  I am thinking you would need new baffles, new cowl…or cowl mods, and at a minimum a field approval for your year….which is the same year as mine.  You might source those parts from a later model Mooney, but then you might as well go all out and do a 201 cowl mod.

[jamesm]

I really like the Cowl Saver from Mcfarlane.  I have had the cowl save on my  well over 10 years no trouble at all.

I have had the cowl off count less number of times it works great.

https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/articles/cowl-saver-baffle-seal-material-now-even-better/

James '67C

[Rjfanjet]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:40 AM, takair said:

It appears to me that 1967 and on had silicone baffles.  It also appears that you have the cowl that is meant for them. Is it possible someone actually went backwards on your plane and added the dog house?  At a quick glance, it seems that you could do this as a log entry to match the manual for your year.  

My 68 C has the doghouse.

[takair]

39 minutes ago, Rjfanjet said:

My 68 C has the doghouse.

I looked again and I was wrong.  Looks like the C retained the dog house.  

[David Lloyd]

The C kept the doghouse throughout production.

[jamesm]

If they had increased the exit air volume from the cowl the before certification !!!!! .   this probably wouldn't be a discussion item/topic. but when air trying to escape from the opening  it came in through , this is not good.   So here we are .. my left side of my engine cylinder get hot on  a regular basis (under able to figure out a consistent  pattern or root cause)  and there  nothing  or  very limited modifications that I can do  according to  the FAR 43 without it being major modification/alteration.

 

James '67C

 

[Sabremech]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:49 AM, hammdo said:

I bought his plane and they are wonderful!  David is working on a version 2 of the cowling but I'm not 100% sure he'll use the Van's Baffles again.

-Don

Hi Don,

I’m pretty certain I won’t use Vans baffling going forward. I could only really use the back and aft two cylinder portions of their kit and had to build the rest to fit the Mooney cowling. The Vans parts are too short for the front two cylinders. They did help me get patterns made to do the other couple of modded airplanes. 
Cowling project is back to making progress. I’ll have two different cowlings as a result of the issue I had with the prototype. I now have a full forward fuselage along with an engine to fit parts in my shop. That was a big set back when I sold my C to Don!! 

David

[Shadrach]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:13 AM, David Lloyd said:

A few years back, someone posted pics of his new cowling install on a C.  I recognized the Van’s Aircraft baffles. He later acknowledged using Van’s. A willing mechanic and appropriate paperwork….

Don’t most RVs have a fiberglass plenum? What is the reasoning for having an inner plenum? Do all of the E models have a Doghouse? Just curious why my 67F just uses the upper cowling as a plenum but Hank’s 70 C has a doghouse.

[Shadrach]

12 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Hi Don,

I’m pretty certain I won’t use Vans baffling going forward. I could only really use the back and aft two cylinder portions of their kit and had to build the rest to fit the Mooney cowling. The Vans parts are too short for the front two cylinders. They did help me get patterns made to do the other couple of modded airplanes. 
Cowling project is back to making progress. I’ll have two different cowlings as a result of the issue I had with the prototype. I now have a full forward fuselage along with an engine to fit parts in my shop. That was a big set back when I sold my C to Don!! 

David

You can probably speak to it more so than anyone. What’s the advantage to having a separate plenum on the carbureted birds? It always kind of seemed like having an extra piece of bread on the top half of a sandwich