Considering Leaving General Aviation

[redbaron1982]

40 minutes ago, FlyWalt said:

I would really like to hear of your experience here. 

There is not much to it. The contract for the prebuy says that the shop will not assume any responsibility in excess of the total amount of the prebuy itself (2kUSD). Even more, as I did not specify anything specific for the prebuy, they say that there is no standard for a prebuy and for them corrosion is not something to check on a prebuy.

I did ask them (on the phone) to do the inspection part of the annual as prebuy, as I would continue the prebuy into an annual as soon as I took posession of the aircraft. The discrepencies at the prebuy were 8k, total discrepancies after annual 35k.

I tried sending a letter to them, to ask for the insurance company and they replied (with mroe fancy words) "We didn't do anything wrong, so no need to talk to our insurance company".

I could have continue sending a special type of letter (I don't remember exactly the name) that some how would push them to give the contact of the insurance company or otherwise face the possibility to pay 3x the total damage. But that letter was 500usd, with the risk of still not getting any response, for the remote possibility of getting back just the 2k of the prebuy inspection?

Next time I would try to push to have a contract that is not so in favor of the shop, but I wonder if any shop would actually agree to sign a contract that says that they are responsible for any air worthiness discrepancies in the first, let's say, one month after the prebuy.

[Pinecone]

So, which shop?  So I can avoid them.

WTF?! that looking for corrosion is not part of a pre-buy.

 

[redbaron1982]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

So, which shop?  So I can avoid them.

WTF?! that looking for corrosion is not part of a pre-buy.

 

Flight Level Aviation / Chris LaPlante

[Jim Peace]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:59 AM, FlyWalt said:

As things are now in General Aviation, it makes more sense and sanity to sell the airplane and rely on the airlines. Or even buy a share at NetJets or PlaneSense.

What Say you?

did you ever sell and get out?  curious...I am considering the same thing...

[Yetti]

an interesting perspective.   I was in the Hmmm am I really good enough for this exacting hobby?   For my flight review I flew with a really good pilot.  F16/Reno Air Race Pilot/etc etc.    It was a bumpy day as in I hit the cabin top and knocked my headphones off..   He said he was going to work me over.

 

Pretty much did everything on the pilot test.  It really upped my confidence and let me know that I am still safe.    On the ground I asked if he ever felt the need to go to the pedals.  He said "no"   

I would say go fly with a better pilot.

 

[Schllc]

8 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

did you ever sell and get out?  curious...I am considering the same thing...

 

8 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

did you ever sell and get out?  curious...I am considering the same thing...

If it’s about comfort and convenience and probably safety as well, and not about the money, it would be a nice option. But for what it cost me to fly my Mooney every year I could get about 6-8  hours on a jet card. About 15-18 for what it costs for the Aerostar. 
A 25 hour card is about 125k. 
it isn’t a comparison to any piston, probably pretty close to a turboprop, but you would be able to fly over 100hrs for that cost. 

[McMooney]

35 minutes ago, Schllc said:

 

If it’s about comfort and convenience and probably safety as well, and not about the money, it would be a nice option. But for what it cost me to fly my Mooney every year I could get about 6-8  hours on a jet card. About 15-18 for what it costs for the Aerostar. 
A 25 hour card is about 125k. 
it isn’t a comparison to any piston, probably pretty close to a turboprop, but you would be able to fly over 100hrs for that cost. 

wish i magically had just 125k to fly, man i could make way past atp mins in a year, replace my engine and still have money left over.   hehe really wsih i could figure out how to get another 600 hours in the next year, would love to try commercial flying

[ArtVandelay]

did you ever sell and get out?  curious...I am considering the same thing...

Don’t you live in an airpark?

[Jim Peace]

8 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Don’t you live in an airpark?

yes...there are no hangars for rent or mechanics....not fun anymore

Some residents keep their planes at other airports....

[ArtVandelay]

yes...there are no hangars for rent or mechanics....not fun anymore
Some residents keep their planes at other airports....

Wow, I thought Daytona Aircraft was onsite?

If my airport loses its last AP (we’ve lost 3 in past 7 years) I will have to consider leaving GA as well.

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Wow, I thought Daytona Aircraft was onsite?

Don't get me started....

[FlyWalt]

On 4/25/2024 at 10:55 AM, ArtVandelay said:

Wow, I thought Daytona Aircraft was onsite?
 

He was referring to “Trustworthy Shops”.

[NewMoon]

On 4/24/2024 at 2:17 PM, Yetti said:

an interesting perspective.   I was in the Hmmm am I really good enough for this exacting hobby?   For my flight review I flew with a really good pilot.  F16/Reno Air Race Pilot/etc etc.    It was a bumpy day as in I hit the cabin top and knocked my headphones off..   He said he was going to work me over.

 

Pretty much did everything on the pilot test.  It really upped my confidence and let me know that I am still safe.    On the ground I asked if he ever felt the need to go to the pedals.  He said "no"   

I would say go fly with a better pilot.

 

Sound thoughts. Over the past 20 years of flying I have made it a habit to try each year to fly with a different CFII. Didn't accomplish it every year but got darn close. 

Always learned a new thing but as you mentioned,  it was always a confirmation I was still on my game. As we age this becomes ever more important.  

[Austintatious]

oohh, didnt check date on thread.

[FlyWalt]

On 4/24/2024 at 9:49 PM, Schllc said:

 

If it’s about comfort and convenience and probably safety as well, and not about the money, it would be a nice option. But for what it cost me to fly my Mooney every year I could get about 6-8  hours on a jet card. About 15-18 for what it costs for the Aerostar. 
A 25 hour card is about 125k. 
it isn’t a comparison to any piston, probably pretty close to a turboprop, but you would be able to fly over 100hrs for that cost. 

So this kind of information is why I love MooneySpace and the people here. You guys teach me something every time I come back. I have never shopped the fractional operators nor the jet card sellers. Is 125K a real number for 25 hours of jet time? That is doable for me and I typically fly my Mooney about 50 hours a year. But that does not account for all of the time spent on owner maintenance that I do. My hangar expenses are also not accounted for.

It also would eliminate the mental stress and time spent vetting maintenance shops and managing the "Jake and Kurt Pony Shows" out there that exist to steal our maintenance money and squander our trust.

[FlyWalt]

In addition, we need to remember my core motivation for starting this thread:

This didn't happen to me. It happened to a good friend of mine who is Pilot64. And I had a direct conversation with the DOM of that shop after an American Bonanza Society event about it. He took ZERO responsibility for it and carried a very cavalier attitude. He even bashed the victim during this conversation. I was shocked and appalled. 

Be careful about who you trust with your airplane.

[ttflyer]

On 12/1/2022 at 10:53 AM, WAFI said:

I pretty new to the GA world and in the short time I have owned my plane. I have realized that Experimental Aircraft are far superior, more reliable and in my opinion make them more safe to fly.

Knowing what I know now... I would have never bought my Mooney but don't take this the wrong way. I love my Mooney and would not buy any other certified aircraft to take it place. I don't plan on selling my plane but I might add something different to the fleet.

I'll just be the counter point here.  I owned an extremely nice RV6 for four years before the Mooney.  Built by a Vans factory test pilot.  Full glass cockpit.  Probably one of the nicest RV6s ever built.  And I never felt comfortable in it.  There was NO doubt that it was built in someone's garage.  I got the distinct impression that it would crush like a beer can in any off-airport landing.  It was fun to fly but had no mass and no inertia which made it a hand full in a gusty crosswind (it was a taildragger).  It also had the glide ratio of a man hole cover when the engine quit...

I'll take my Mooney any time...  Yes, certified is more expensive.  But I would argue safer for a verity of reasons. I would never go back to experimental... 

[Fly Boomer]

20 hours ago, ttflyer said:

There was NO doubt that it was built in someone's garage.

But that's an advantage:  Buy your parts at Home Depot, and no pesky rules regarding who can work on it. 

[GeeBee]

I got my bill to replace my alternator. Labor rate 125 and hour. It was performed 10 days after I called the shop.

I went to my marina the first week in February to schedule annual service on my boat. Nothing big, oil change and anode change. I was told it would be 6 weeks. They just got to my boat this week, 3 months later. Labor rate is.........225 an hour. This is not some local place, but the largest SeaRay dealer in the world with locations all over the country. Now they tell me they can't find techs to work, despite the fact that a local tech school has a two year marine technology program that is free to qualifying Georgia residents.  I told them at 225 an hour, with a local tech school as a resource, they don't have a labor problem, they have a management problem. I should leave boating or maybe A&Ps should start working on boats. 

[DCarlton]

5 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

I got my bill to replace my alternator. Labor rate 125 and hour. It was performed 10 days after I called the shop.

I went to my marina the first week in February to schedule annual service on my boat. Nothing big, oil change and anode change. I was told it would be 6 weeks. They just got to my boat this week, 3 months later. Labor rate is.........225 an hour. This is not some local place, but the largest SeaRay dealer in the world with locations all over the country. Now they tell me they can't find techs to work, despite the fact that a local tech school has a two year marine technology program that is free to qualifying Georgia residents.  I told them at 225 an hour, with a local tech school as a resource, they don't have a labor problem, they have a management problem. I should leave boating or maybe A&Ps should start working on boats. 

I haven't started my boat yet this summer.  I'm scared.  Just got my wife's car out of the shop (at $375 / hr) and now my Mooney needs to go back in the shop.  

[bcg]

I got my bill to replace my alternator. Labor rate 125 and hour. It was performed 10 days after I called the shop.
I went to my marina the first week in February to schedule annual service on my boat. Nothing big, oil change and anode change. I was told it would be 6 weeks. They just got to my boat this week, 3 months later. Labor rate is.........225 an hour. This is not some local place, but the largest SeaRay dealer in the world with locations all over the country. Now they tell me they can't find techs to work, despite the fact that a local tech school has a two year marine technology program that is free to qualifying Georgia residents.  I told them at 225 an hour, with a local tech school as a resource, they don't have a labor problem, they have a management problem. I should leave boating or maybe A&Ps should start working on boats. 

This is why I work on my own stuff. I even have a vehicle lift in the home shop. Honestly, it's not even the labor costs, it's the delays. I can get it done myself in less time than it takes me to get it to schedule with the mechanic and drop it off.

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[GeeBee]

10 hours ago, bcg said:

This is why I work on my own stuff. I even have a vehicle lift in the home shop. Honestly, it's not even the labor costs, it's the delays. I can get it done myself in less time than it takes me to get it to schedule with the mechanic and drop it off.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
 

That would be fine, but I don't think I want to own a travel lift, travel lift bay and the shore lease required to haul a 12,000 pound boat out of the water. Nor is that a single man job.