Victoria MN crash last year

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, hoot777 said:

Final NTSB report is out. No corrosion found. Metal was over stressed. Maybe a higher tech guy can post it here on Mooneyspace   Suspect spatial disorientation as they exited the cloud in a tight spiral. May have been passed out from g loading which was at 8.  

The final report came out in 2023

Yet another thread on this same accident:

 

[cliffy]

 Vacuum pumps fail a lot more than AIs  AI failure is rare

Want a good power system for the AI that can't fail in Mooneys?  Get it powered by a venturi

If you have flying speed you have a good AI  Don't talk about ice- you shouldn't be in that kind of weather in a Mooney anyway

Which one of 2 AIs has failed ? Try it sometime"-)  for real IMC (sim or flight I don't care)

In the 121 world 3 AIs is mandated  We used the 'best two out of three" syndrome. 

Had a chief pilot once on a CE 500 who couldn't handle the check ride when they failed his AI.

Couldn't disregard his bad instrument and go small third or transfer controls to my side. 

I'm left wondering what the old Pan Am pilots on the Clipper Ships did around the world when they didn't even have gyro AIs back then?  "Here kid, you fly this thing needle ball airspeed"   They didn't piss a moan about "partial" panel because that was ALL the panel they had. No such thing partial panel then. AND in some cases they had one needle in the center of the entire panel to look at. 

Had several what we called "autopilot cripples" in the 121 world. Without it they couldn't get it down inside the fences at the airports- LITERALLY! 

Always hand flew every third approach by hand to keep sharp. Many down to CAT III mins just in case

In the AB 319 I would fly an ILS by hand as I don't think their stability program is all that good. In smooth air it always seemed to wallow around coming down the slot. 

Autopilot dependence and "Children of the Magenta Line" go hand in hand.  (If you don't know of the training film "Children of the Magenta Line" you owe it to yourself to go to utube and watch it. )

[cliffy]

Forgot to add-

Back before RVSM I had a flight from JFK to LAS in a 757 with NO autopilots working

MEL'd for the flight back to home base.

I took the takeoff and first hour to get out of NY airspace and then transferred controls to my young FO so I could take a break. 

After about 45 mins he gave up and gave it back to me saying he was done hand flying and wouldn't do it any more on the flight! I wound up doing the rest of the trip myself hand flying. 

I asked him what he would do if he was Capt and the AP failed to which he had no answer. 

One of the worst pilot attitudes I ever flew with.  I hope he got out of aviation as he didn't belong in a cockpit. 

 

BTW When Eddie Rickenbacker ran Eastern Airlines he didn't install autopilots in the airplanes as he said-

"I hire my pilots to fly and not just sit there"!!!

 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

Forgot to add-

Back before RVSM I had a flight from JFK to LAS in a 757 with NO autopilots working

MEL'd for the flight back to home base.

I took the takeoff and first hour to get out of NY airspace and then transferred controls to my young FO so I could take a break. 

After about 45 mins he gave up and gave it back to me saying he was done hand flying and wouldn't do it any more on the flight! I wound up doing the rest of the trip myself hand flying. 

I asked him what he would do if he was Capt and the AP failed to which he had no answer. 

One of the worst pilot attitudes I ever flew with.  I hope he got out of aviation as he didn't belong in a cockpit. 

 

BTW When Eddie Rickenbacker ran Eastern Airlines he didn't install autopilots in the airplanes as he said-

"I hire my pilots to fly and not just sit there"!!!

 

In A&P school one of the airplanes in our hangar was a T-39 (Sabreliner).    I was surprised to find out they were all built and operated without autopilots.

[Pinecone]

Until I got my Mooney, I had about 15 minutes time on autopilot.  Most planes I flew, including IMC, did not have one (including USAF jets).  A few had a wing leveler that I never used