baggage door picture

[Jim Peace]

not sure if this was posted or not...it was just sent to me....I will delete if duplicate

 

[JayMatt]

That's my biggest fear is that pops open at 10k. My wife and I have a strict locked verified locked routine for the baggage door. Not sure it there is any truth to it but an old pilot at my airport said if it opens at altitude it'll rip off and take your tail with it... 

[SoccerCA]

Speed brake?

[Hank]

41 minutes ago, JayMatt said:

That's my biggest fear is that pops open at 10k. My wife and I have a strict locked verified locked routine for the baggage door. Not sure it there is any truth to it but an old pilot at my airport said if it opens at altitude it'll rip off and take your tail with it... 

Someone in England posted inside video of what happened when his baggage door opened during cruise. They made a nice emergency landing in a field, the door was stuck to the horizontal stab.

Not sure I remember the final outcome, he was looking for parts, I think.

[EricJ]

It seems like there's often damage done if they come open in flight.    Mine popped open on takeoff roll once, and I aborted and went back to the ramp.    Just popping open at 40 kts or so broke the stay.

Made a hell of a noise, too.

In my case I hadn't latched it all the way due to a distraction, so now I'm more careful about checking it before departure.

[Bolter]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Someone in England posted inside video of what happened when his baggage door opened during cruise. They made a nice emergency landing in a field, the door was stuck to the horizontal stab.

Not sure I remember the final outcome, he was looking for parts, I think.

That was @RedSkyFlyer  According to FlightAware, that tail number is flying, now, so it must have been fixed.  Worth noting that they found that the latch mechanism was incorrectly installed, as opposed to a user error when closing the hatch.  My J was setup so that the key was captured in the Medeco lock unless I made a special effort to remove it.  That was a nice feature to prevent pilot error.    

-dan

[PT20J]

Bob Kromer conducted flight tests (in an M20K, if I recall correctly) with the airplane rigged to allow him to open the door in flight and found no problems. However, there are reports of the door coming off when it opened in flight. I think Bob tested an new airplane and over the years the piano hinge can wear a lot. So, it's probably best not to test it.

Locking the door is a good way to make sure that you don't leave it unlatched. However, locking it only locks the external latch and does not affect the emergency unlatch mechanism, so if that is not latched properly -- or if the cover is missing and something in the baggage compartment snags it -- the door can still come open.

Skip

[Fly Boomer]

52 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Locking the door is a good way to make sure that you don't leave it unlatched. However, locking it only locks the external latch

I'm guessing they don't pop open because the airstream sucked the external handle open.  More likely is the external handle was down,  but the actual latch was not engaged properly.

[PT20J]

Just now, Fly Boomer said:

I'm guessing they don't pop open because the airstream sucked the external handle open.  More likely is the external handle was down,  but the actual latch was not engaged properly.

The  most common cause seems to be forgetting to latch the baggage door. Usually, they pop open during the takeoff roll just before rotation speed. The latch pushes the pins out and you cannot depress the latch handle fully unless the pins engage the holes in the frame, and locking it adds no security because the latch is an over-center mechanism.

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, PT20J said:

The  most common cause seems to be forgetting to latch the baggage door.

You mean "forget to latch" as in the latch handle is protruding straight out?  I would never say never, but it gives me a pretty good visual clue if the latch handle is sticking out.

[PT20J]

4 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

You mean "forget to latch" as in the latch handle is protruding straight out?  I would never say never, but it gives me a pretty good visual clue if the latch handle is sticking out.

I thought that too, until I did it once 

[EricJ]

49 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

You mean "forget to latch" as in the latch handle is protruding straight out?  I would never say never, but it gives me a pretty good visual clue if the latch handle is sticking out.

In my case it was partially latched, I just didn't finish pulling it closed.    It's the only time I've done that and the only time it ever popped open.

I have a J that is too early to be eligible for the usual factory emergency interior release mechanisms, so I put in the old-school poor-man's interior cable pull that just pulls the latch mechanism open.    One benefit of that is that it is easy to tell from inside the airplane whether the latch is fully closed or not.   Since the popped-hatch event the first item on my pre-start checklist is to verify the hatch is closed and fully latched, which I can tell by looking over my shoulder that there is no slack on the cable pull.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, PT20J said:

Bob Kromer conducted flight tests (in an M20K, if I recall correctly) with the airplane rigged to allow him to open the door in flight and found no problems. However, there are reports of the door coming off when it opened in flight. I think Bob tested an new airplane and over the years the piano hinge can wear a lot. So, it's probably best not to test it.

Locking the door is a good way to make sure that you don't leave it unlatched. However, locking it only locks the external latch and does not affect the emergency unlatch mechanism, so if that is not latched properly -- or if the cover is missing and something in the baggage compartment snags it -- the door can still come open.

Skip

Not all models had the internal release, so locking from the outside locks your secondary exit.  Some owners have added an internal pull cable and handle to allow opening from the inside.

I see that Eric posted a picture of the handle.

[0TreeLemur]

8 hours ago, EricJ said:

It seems like there's often damage done if they come open in flight.    Mine popped open on takeoff roll once, and I aborted and went back to the ramp.    Just popping open at 40 kts or so broke the stay.

Made a hell of a noise, too.

In my case I hadn't latched it all the way due to a distraction, so now I'm more careful about checking it before departure.

Did this once.  Came open at maybe 20-30 knots, and did no damage.

[Fly Boomer]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

I have a J that is too early to be eligible for the usual factory emergency interior release mechanisms, so I put in the old-school poor-man's interior cable pull that just pulls the latch mechanism open.    One benefit of that is that it is easy to tell from inside the airplane whether the latch is fully closed or not. 

Nice!

[MikeOH]

I have the door key and the mag key on the same key ring.  When I open the baggage door I leave the key (and ring with the mag key) in the baggage door lock.  The last thing I do before boarding is close, lock, and remove the key.

So far, I haven't had the door pop open

[Shadrach]

13 hours ago, JayMatt said:

That's my biggest fear is that pops open at 10k. My wife and I have a strict locked verified locked routine for the baggage door. Not sure it there is any truth to it but an old pilot at my airport said if it opens at altitude it'll rip off and take your tail with it... 

He’s either pulling your leg, a first class bull shitter or both.

[Shadrach]

6 hours ago, PT20J said:

I thought that too, until I did it once 

You and me both. First time I had my new sister in law in the plane. Plane was fine, my ego, not so much…

[Fly Boomer]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:01 PM, Shadrach said:

He’s either pulling your leg, a first class bull shitter or both.

I've seen either pics or a vid of a forced landing with substantially damaged tail.

[Bolter]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

I've seen either pics or a vid of a forced landing with substantially damaged tail.

@Shadrach@Fly Boomer This is the video, posted by the pilot himself:

Also a second video from on the ground, after landing.  

 

 

[Shadrach]

21 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I've seen either pics or a vid of a forced landing with substantially damaged tail.

So have I, but the aircraft was controllable.  The comment I read read was “take out the tail”.  I cannot find a single crash because of a baggage door departing the airframe and rendering the aircraft uncontrollable. The chances of a light weight aluminum panel “taking out the tail” are very slim. Several decades ago, a Mooneymail list member hit what was believed to be a Canada Goose with the vertical stab. That was very severe damage to the tail. Still controllable…

The UK registered K model that had the baggage door wrap around the right horizontal stab did not have “its tail taken out”.  The “forced landing” was was one of opportunity. They happened to be over an airfield.  Had he not been. it would have been questionable decision making to land a controllable airplane off field .  Pilot did a good job especially for having  just 165hrs total time. The maneuvering and rushing to get it on the ground could have gone badly.  Thank god for gear horns.

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, Shadrach said:

The comment I read read was “take out the tail”.

As is always the case with less-than-real-time communication -- especially the written variety -- we understood what was written differently.  I got "door comes off and damages the tail" and you got (approximately) "door comes off and rips the tail off or otherwise renders they airplane uncontrollable".  I agree with your understanding, which is (approximately) "not likely something like a baggage door is going to render the airplane uncontrollable".  

[Ned Gravel]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:49 PM, EricJ said:

In my case it was partially latched, I just didn't finish pulling it closed.    It's the only time I've done that and the only time it ever popped open.

I have a J that is too early to be eligible for the usual factory emergency interior release mechanisms, so I put in the old-school poor-man's interior cable pull that just pulls the latch mechanism open.    One benefit of that is that it is easy to tell from inside the airplane whether the latch is fully closed or not.   Since the popped-hatch event the first item on my pre-start checklist is to verify the hatch is closed and fully latched, which I can tell by looking over my shoulder that there is no slack on the cable pull.

Eric:

Mine is not as cute as yours, but I did the same thing about 6 years ago.  Door is latched during the walkaround but not locked because this door provides an exit "in case."  I may put some red tubing on the wire that will allow me to also confirm the door being latched as part of the run-up.