Shadrach Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bigdaddie said: You ALWAYS want to maintain runway track until clear of all obstacles. We use 400’ AGL at the airlines as a safe altitude to make any initial turns. ass. At least 400' AGL is IFR SOP. However for VFR departures the FAR/AIM says initial turn can begin at .5 miles beyond departure end of runway and within 300' of TPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) I thought I recall somewhere in the AIM it recommends flying runway centerline in VFR, but flying runway heading regardless of crosswind in IFR. I can't recall the reason. For crosswind takeoffs, upwind aileron can put more weight on the upwind tire and less on the downwind tire. Having twice as much weight on one wheel gives you twice as much grip as half the weigh on both. Just be ready to level the wings when the plane is ready to take off. Edited November 1, 2022 by jaylw314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, jaylw314 said: I thought I recall somewhere in the AIM it recommends flying runway centerline in VFR, but flying runway heading regardless of crosswind in IFR. I can't recall the reason. For crosswind takeoffs, upwind aileron can put more weight on the upwind tire and less on the downwind tire. Having twice as much weight on one wheel gives you twice as much grip as half the weigh on both. Just be ready to level the wings when the plane is ready to take off. VFR, you're supposed to fly a rectangular traffic pattern over the ground compensating for wind drift. IFR, when controllers say heading, they mean heading not track as they are already making allowance for everyone's drift. The GFC 500 can fly either a heading or GPS track according to what you are trying to accomplish, and the G3X can be set to display track up or heading up. Skip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 34 minutes ago, PT20J said: VFR, you're supposed to fly a rectangular traffic pattern over the ground compensating for wind drift. IFR, when controllers say heading, they mean heading not track as they are already making allowance for everyone's drift. The GFC 500 can fly either a heading or GPS track according to what you are trying to accomplish, and the G3X can be set to display track up or heading up. Skip That's what I thought, I just couldn't remember if I actually read that somewhere or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, PT20J said: VFR, you're supposed to fly a rectangular traffic pattern over the ground compensating for wind drift. IFR, when controllers say heading, they mean heading not track as they are already making allowance for everyone's drift. The GFC 500 can fly either a heading or GPS track according to what you are trying to accomplish, and the G3X can be set to display track up or heading up. Skip I don't think it matters whether IFR or VFR, if told by a controller to fly runway heading the pilot is expected to fly runway heading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Shadrach said: I don't think it matters whether IFR or VFR, if told by a controller to fly runway heading the pilot is expected to fly runway heading. That's my understanding and a better way to state it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Shadrach said: I don't think it matters whether IFR or VFR, if told by a controller to fly runway heading the pilot is expected to fly runway heading. I was thinking more about the departure before you make your first turn at 400' AGL. My understanding is that if you're IFR, you fly the runway heading before your turn, even if it's VMC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 12:00 PM, N201MKTurbo said: It is interesting that it says to make a turn into the wind after takeoff. I thought you were supposed to maintain runway heading and drift with the wind. Notwithstanding ATC runway heading instructions, a rule of thumb I was taught in regard to crosswind takeoffs is to set the heading bug left or right into the wind at half the wind strength value. After lift off, fly the bugged heading until ready to turn. It should as best as possible keep you aligned with the runway with minimal drift. For example, take off runway 36 with a 10 knot crosswind from the left then set heading bug to 355 or if it’s a 20 knot crosswind then set heading bug to 350. The same concept applies for right crosswinds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 Some things that are interesting…. (I’ve been away…. ) 1) Keeping track or keeping heading… gets more important when there are parallel runways…. Or helicopters are using the opposite traffic pattern… 2) transition to/from the runway… there is one exact speed the Mooney starts and stops flying at… it is dependent on WnB… and can be a range of 10kias wide depending on actual landing or T/O weight… 3) 10kias fast on landing… equals an extra 1k’ of float before touchdown…. 4) For the new guy… forcing the plane to land instead of allowing it to float… is bad… it’s a set-up for the porpoise…. 5) Notes about the porpoise… the nose will bounce three times… First bounce is a hint that your speed was a bit too fast… Go arounds are recommended… Second bounce you know it is time to go around… Go arounds are free…. Third contact is full arrogance… or a real need to be on the ground now… The third bounce is usually where the nose wheel collapses… and close friends start to disown you… while mumbling something about the oncoming insurance cost increases… 6) Note regarding T/O speed… Mooneys don’t depart the ground on their own… staying on the ground beyond Vr… increasingly gets into experimental territory… once you reach flying speed… get away from solid objects… the Mooney pull helps break contact with the ground… not releasing the pull can end in stalling around… Why it is experimental… Mooneys were built to withstand a lot of things… but steering integrity of the three wheeled set-up, gets away with the simple nose gear wear… 7) The eight second ride… is DMax’s description of losing control on the ground… due to this nose gear wear… Often during landing… but, can be equally applicable during T/O… increased speeds while on the ground, increase the strength of the risk. 8) Setting trim for T/O… the white square on the trim indicator… is a hint to where your balance is… forward balance, top of the box… rear balance, bottom of the box… experimenting outside the box? Make sure your stall warning is working really well…. 9) Control forces… sure, some people are stronger than others… and pounds pushing can be easier than pounds pulling… Being out of trim… can be very wearing over a few minutes… When it comes to stuck trim, run away trim, and just being mis-trimmed situations… it helps to know how power and flaps conspire to make control forces really challenging… 10) Take off and landing are so dynamic… If you don’t get it right the first time… chances of getting it right, after a bounce, or other oddity… become less and less… 9) Notes on Go arounds… get practice with a good Mooney instructor… if something gets away from you… it happens incredibly quickly…. While near the ground… Trimmed for landing, with full flaps…. Doesn’t mix very well with full throttle…. Most situations in a Mooney don’t require the full throttle…. So… definitely get the experience of the control forces in the case you find yourself… full flaps, full up trim, and going around…. Or that nose trim ran away a bit before you got it shut off… PP thoughts only, not a CFI…. Best regard, -a- 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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