Tempest lawsuit letter

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, WAFI said:

I would love to hear your feedback on the Electroair.

Maybe we can get electronic automated variable fuel mixing one day. A couple extra sensors, an algorithm, a control processor, maybe a servo and boom no more red handle. 

1) If you really want an automated mixture control….

Let me introduce you to our friend Rob… aka @takair

Rob STC’d a servo controlled mixture knob…. Because he has this skill.   His other STC for Mooneys is the electric servo for the retract step.   
 

2) As far as Electroair experience goes…there have been two pireps.  At least one was sent back… the other one wasn’t favorable either…

The competitor had some issues early on, but were very solvable… some were more long term than the others… (SureFly)

 

3) Champion vs. Tempest… as a company Champion has failed us all several times over the years… crud quality, that was reported to them, with no response…

Yes, tempest had an issue with their welding process… all documented around here… all dealt with the best they could… and communicated the issues with the users… including replacements…

4) Similar crud quality for the Gill vs. Concorde debate… My Concordes have outlasted my Gills 3:1…. Six years vs two…

My long term memory isn’t all that strong… but it will be a cold day in NJ if I have to purchase anything from Champion or Gill…

5) Oddly, the parent company for Gill batteries is TCM… Back in the day… TCM cylinders didn’t have a very good reputation either…

I tend to favor companies that discuss their issues by visiting MS….  

There were two Continental guys that had visited a ways back…
 

Best regards,

-a-

[hais]

48 minutes ago, carusoam said:

1) If you really want an automated mixture control….

Let me introduce you to our friend Rob… aka @takair

Rob STC’d a servo controlled mixture knob…. Because he has this skill.   His other STC for Mooneys is the electric servo for the retract step.   
 

2) As far as Electroair experience goes…there have been two pireps.  At least one was sent back… the other one wasn’t favorable either…

The competitor had some issues early on, but were very solvable… some were more long term than the others… (SureFly)

 

3) Champion vs. Tempest… as a company Champion has failed us all several times over the years… crud quality, that was reported to them, with no response…

Yes, tempest had an issue with their welding process… all documented around here… all dealt with the best they could… and communicated the issues with the users… including replacements…

4) Similar crud quality for the Gill vs. Concorde debate… My Concordes have outlasted my Gills 3:1…. Six years vs two…

My long term memory isn’t all that strong… but it will be a cold day in NJ if I have to purchase anything from Champion or Gill…

5) Oddly, the parent company for Gill batteries is TCM… Back in the day… TCM cylinders didn’t have a very good reputation either…

I tend to favor companies that discuss their issues by visiting MS….  

There were two Continental guys that had visited a ways back…
 

Best regards,

-a-

So how do we talk @takair into extending the auto mixture into a FADEC? Perhaps even auto-throttle? I can't find a good reason as to why I would buy a GFC500 and not add one of these ....

[carusoam]

29 minutes ago, hais said:

So how do we talk @takair into extending the auto mixture into a FADEC? Perhaps even auto-throttle? I can't find a good reason as to why I would buy a GFC500 and not add one of these ....

Rob was around here, just a few hours ago…. 
 

He’ll be back…

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Well guys, I’m taking a leap of faith here. I installed my Fine Wires a long with giving my injectors a little spa treatment a few hours ago. 
Maybe I’m suffering from another placebo effect but she purred like a kitten.  
All I accomplished was a couple of run ups an a taxi over to the self serve fuel for Friday afternoons flight but it was smooth.
Now I need to read up on the JPI LOP procedure again. 

You should be fine with the new Tempest fine wires. Yeti, me and a few others were caught up in the batch of plugs that had outsourced center electrode welding done. I had one plug that failed.

Tempest wasn’t initially very accommodating with me. I think they knew they had a quality issue and were trying to avoid a wide recall. It wasn’t until I pointed out that it was getting visibility on the forums that they changed their tune with me (their original request was for me to send my plugs in to be tested and only replace what they considered to be “bad”). Eventually they provided me a whole set including the two spares I keep.

I have about 400 hours on them since they were replaced and they look fine.

As for cleaning them, I did speak to one of their technical people and he said it was okay to clean them with walnut shells as media. I found the walnut shells are a bit problematic as they get stuck in the electrode area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[takair]

7 hours ago, hais said:

So how do we talk @takair into extending the auto mixture into a FADEC? Perhaps even auto-throttle? I can't find a good reason as to why I would buy a GFC500 and not add one of these ....

I like to think that with Auto-Lean and SureFly I come pretty close to having FADEC.  The market would need to indicate demand for more.  There have been FADECs for the retrofit market, but not enough demand. For what it’s worth, we do have a prototype Auto-Throttle that we have bench tested….it works, it is doable….just need to know there are a lot of people who want it.  Happy to discuss in detail via another thread, PM, phone, or email.

[philiplane]

11 hours ago, WAFI said:

Does Surefly offer a product for Dual Mag engines? 

Unfortunately not. If I had a dual mag engine, I would either convert to individual mags, or stick with the D3000, versus installing the Electroair system.

[WAFI]

19 minutes ago, philiplane said:

Unfortunately not. If I had a dual mag engine, I would either convert to individual mags, or stick with the D3000, versus installing the Electroair system.

I was aware you can convert from an A3B6D to A3B6 during a core exchange when is time to overhaul but I didn't know you can convert it in the field? If so, I would be interested in learning more about this procedure.

[DXB]

12 hours ago, WAFI said:

Does Surefly offer a product for Dual Mag engines? 

nope and I don't think one is planned

[1980Mooney]

On 10/18/2022 at 8:27 AM, A64Pilot said:

…In my opinion a lot of good plugs are damaged during cleaning. trying to make them look new may damage them, just dig the carbon / lead out…

Another benefit from G100UL and the elimination of lead. Spark plugs should only need inspection and not cleaning unless there is excessive carbon fouling. What  other IC engine today needs to have that level of intensive spark plug maintenance and cleaning every approx 50 hours? My experience with air cooled lawn motors, pressure washers, etc running unleaded gasoline is that the spark plugs hold up really well and need very little maintenance over many many years. 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, WAFI said:

I was aware you can convert from an A3B6D to A3B6 during a core exchange when is time to overhaul but I didn't know you can convert it in the field? If so, I would be interested in learning more about this procedure.

They're different engines, so the conversion is just an engine swap.

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, WAFI said:

I was aware you can convert from an A3B6D to A3B6 during a core exchange when is time to overhaul but I didn't know you can convert it in the field? If so, I would be interested in learning more about this procedure.

I recall hearing that it can be done, but I don't recall hearing about anyone actually doing it.

One upside to getting a Lycoming rebuild is that it will come with the roller tappets.  I think that's trickier if you're doing a field overhaul

[WAFI]

52 minutes ago, EricJ said:

They're different engines, so the conversion is just an engine swap.

That's what i thought.

[A64Pilot]

I think you can convert a dual drive to two single drives, but it’s the entire accy gearbox, and you are literally converting one engine to another, the difficulty and expense in doing so I believe makes it that it’s just not logical to do.

Not certain but that’s my understanding. I assume Lycoming is converting some at overhaul, new data plates, books etc.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

7 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I think you can convert a dual drive to two single drives, but it’s the entire accy gearbox, and you are literally converting one engine to another, the difficulty and expense in doing so I believe makes it that it’s just not logical to do.

Not certain but that’s my understanding. I assume Lycoming is converting some at overhaul, new data plates, books etc.

 

Its not just the accessory cover that is different, the gears are different, so the crankcase is different. About the only things you can re-use are the crank, rods, cam and about 1/2 the gears. You can re-use the cylinders if you aren't replacing.

[A64Pilot]

I thought the accy gearbox was removable?

So if not then Lycoming is scrapping a lot of cases? Seems like serviceable single drive cases would be cheap if they weren’t?

[N201MKTurbo]

55 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I thought the accy gearbox was removable?

So if not then Lycoming is scrapping a lot of cases? Seems like serviceable single drive cases would be cheap if they weren’t?

I doubt they are scrapping them. There are plenty of A3B6Ds being overhauled.

The accessory cover only forms 1/2 the accessory case, the other half is the crankcase. 

[hais]

9 hours ago, takair said:

I like to think that with Auto-Lean and SureFly I come pretty close to having FADEC.  The market would need to indicate demand for more.  There have been FADECs for the retrofit market, but not enough demand. For what it’s worth, we do have a prototype Auto-Throttle that we have bench tested….it works, it is doable….just need to know there are a lot of people who want it.  Happy to discuss in detail via another thread, PM, phone, or email.

Here we go

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/43738-aftermarket-fadec/

[Rotorhead]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:11 AM, philiplane said:

Unfortunately not. If I had a dual mag engine, I would either convert to individual mags, or stick with the D3000, versus installing the Electroair system.

@philiplane Why would you avoid the electroair?? My D3000 just took a sh!t and looking at the options.

[toto]

15 minutes ago, Rotorhead said:

@philiplane Why would you avoid the electroair?? My D3000 just took a sh!t and looking at the options.

I paid for the expensive 500-hour despite a strong desire to go electronic simply because I don’t want to be a guinea pig early adopter. I’m hoping that they work out all the bugs during my next 500 hours and then I’ll upgrade.

 

[Rotorhead]

3 minutes ago, toto said:

I paid for the expensive 500-hour despite a strong desire to go electronic simply because I don’t want to be a guinea pig early adopter. I’m hoping that they work out all the bugs during my next 500 hours and then I’ll upgrade.

 

@toto Any problems with your mag during the inspection? How many $$$'S?

Edited October 22, 2022 by Rotorhead

[toto]

20 minutes ago, Rotorhead said:

@toto Any problems with your mag during the inspection? How many $$$'S?

It was a little under three grand for the inspection at Kelly Aero. After paying the shop for the reinstall, it was a little over three grand total.

They replaced a bunch of components, including the housing.

For whatever it’s worth, the mag was perfect before I sent it off to Kelly, and I haven’t had any problems since the inspection. So far, so good. I had the inspection done at about 485 hours. 

[Hank]

9 hours ago, Rotorhead said:

@toto Any problems with your mag during the inspection? How many $$$'S?

 

8 hours ago, toto said:

It was a little under three grand for the inspection at Kelly Aero. After paying the shop for the reinstall, it was a little over three grand total.

They replaced a bunch of components, including the housing.

Huh. I paid $1600-something to have a failed magneto repaired must before the pandemic. It looked pretty new upon return, and failed again in 3.2 hours . . . . Internal wires were cut by the spinning gear. Quick, right, cheap:  pick any two. The repair took three weeks . . . Sometimes you just can't win.

[Shadrach]

22 hours ago, Hank said:

 

Huh. I paid $1600-something to have a failed magneto repaired must before the pandemic. It looked pretty new upon return, and failed again in 3.2 hours . . . . Internal wires were cut by the spinning gear. Quick, right, cheap:  pick any two. The repair took three weeks . . . Sometimes you just can't win.

Good god. I had my Bendix mags IRAN’d on field in 2018 for $400 a piece.

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Good god. I had my Bendix mags IRAN’d on field in 2018 for $400 a piece.

Many shops have a pretty long list of items that get replaced regardless of condition, those shops of course give you a price what it costs when you call, not an estimate.

As a kid I used to overhaul automatic transmissions at a shop and that’s what was done, and while owners didn’t know it, but every job was an exchange, that way they could drop off the car in the morning and have it back the same day.

Then there are some that pull it apart inspect and replace only those parts deemed worn beyond limits, they usually come in cheaper plus there is the argument of how do you inspect a capacitor for example.

I may do my own 500 hour inspection this time as I’m rated and we supposedly have a mag expert on the field, but he’s not rated.

I’ve never done my mags before, always sent them out, and I’ve had a “D” mag for a Long time and never had a hiccup from one.

It’s been years so maybe they aren’t the same Guy, but I had very good luck with this guy, and if you look at his prices I think you will find him reasonable, he used to be known as sort of a “D” mag expert. This is an IRAN, not an overhaul, but the 500 hour inspection is well an inspection, so therefore in my opinion an IRAN is correct. 

https://maxwellsmagnetos.com/500-hr-%2F-iran

[Shadrach]

6 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Many shops have a pretty long list of items that get replaced regardless of condition, those shops of course give you a price what it costs when you call, not an estimate.

As a kid I used to overhaul automatic transmissions at a shop and that’s what was done, and while owners didn’t know it, but every job was an exchange, that way they could drop off the car in the morning and have it back the same day.

Then there are some that pull it apart inspect and replace only those parts deemed worn beyond limits, they usually come in cheaper plus there is the argument of how do you inspect a capacitor for example.

I may do my own 500 hour inspection this time as I’m rated and we supposedly have a mag expert on the field, but he’s not rated.

I’ve never done my mags before, always sent them out, and I’ve had a “D” mag for a Long time and never had a hiccup from one.

It’s been years so maybe they aren’t the same Guy, but I had very good luck with this guy, and if you look at his prices I think you will find him reasonable, he used to be known as sort of a “D” mag expert. This is an IRAN, not an overhaul, but the 500 hour inspection is well an inspection, so therefore in my opinion an IRAN is correct. 

https://maxwellsmagnetos.com/500-hr-%2F-iran

That’s very reasonable. I would definitely use them if I did not have a local source.