m20J missing yoke at KVNY

[jamesm]

 

I may wee slow on responding to this this happened May 22 2021 at Van Nuys Airport.

I  just found it  on the web I usually stay in my pre-J mooney's and avionics fourms. I was wondering what other have  might have to say. I was wonder if they found a root cause?

 

 

Thanks,

James '67C

[Pasturepilot]

I made it about halfway and absolutely had to close the window. There are two yokes. Fly the plane. Put the gear down. Land. Have a beer and call it a day. 

I wish there was a way I could un-click the link to take back the 1/137,000th of a penny I generated for that video channel.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I listened to the whole thing and felt similarly, I get it would be awkward to fly with the passenger side yoke but you just got to make due with what you have.   Also you can often just fly with the rudders since we have a strong interconnect between the rudder and ailerons.  

My main thought was "What the hell is going on with this plane?"  We got yokes coming off, gear that won't come down properly and a seat that won't lock into position.  Was this a plane on a ferry permit? 

I'm also surprised if this was a J model, I had assumed it was an older Mooney that had the AD on the control shaft and the shaft had come apart.  If it really is a J model that's a 2x WTF

[Shadrach]

Don’t read the comments. The “experts” there as well as the content creator are hypothesizing that the small cabin makes it hard to change seats relative to other aircraft.

[ilovecornfields]

I know most think this is a non-emergency but planes crash not too infrequently because a door pops open which I think most would agree is a lesser problem.

This guy freaked out, but landed safely. Seems like a good outcome to me especially considering he was seconds away from landing gear-up (assuming it’s the same plane as we’re discussing in the other thread - I didn’t click on the link).

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I know most think this is a non-emergency but planes crash not too infrequently because a door pops open which I think most would agree is a lesser problem.

This guy freaked out, but landed safely. Seems like a good outcome to me especially considering he was seconds away from landing gear-up (assuming it’s the same plane as we’re discussing in the other thread - I didn’t click on the link).

I think it was an emergency for sure. I can certainly imagine phases of flight where recovery might be less likely.  He was clearly and understandably shaken as evidenced by his flustered inability to lock the seat (unlikely that the yoke and seat failed simultaneously).  I do think it’s silly to see the peanut gallery and the content creator prattling on about Mooneys being so small that changing seats is a significant challenge relative to other GA singles. Most low wing aircraft require the pilot slide across the seats during egress and ingress. 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

I know most think this is a non-emergency but planes crash not too infrequently because a door pops open which I think most would agree is a lesser problem.

This guy freaked out, but landed safely. Seems like a good outcome to me especially considering he was seconds away from landing gear-up (assuming it’s the same plane as we’re discussing in the other thread - I didn’t click on the link).

I didn’t watch the video, but very often in todays You tube world people post things blown WAY out of proportion, to get their 30 min of fame, then you have these “experts” diagnosing the event and posting commentary, for their 30min of fame.

Peope will seemingly go to ridiculous ends for popularity, even crashing antique aircraft to make themselves look like adventurous thrill seeking hero’s.

Loss of a Yoke on rotation or landing could be very dangerous and I’d think a whole lot more probable, because do you ever put that much force on the thing in cruise?

Add in from what one says the nearly insurmountable obstacles our intrepid hero has to overcome, apparently inop gear, seats that won’t lock, difficult small cabins, etc and it seems suspicious, but I guess I’m jaded.

Yes people do crash airplanes from doors popping open, but you know people crash cars because a squirrel ran across the road too sometimes. 

[jaylw314]

Some nuances I didn't see addressed:

• The commenter claiming to be the pilot did not explicitly indicate if the passenger seat was empty.  He did mention a wife, and having a non-pilot wife in the passenger seat with the only remaining controls could certainly make the switchover extra complicated, no?
• While moving from one front seat to another is doable, it is definitely MORE difficult than some other aircraft.  The center pedestal is quite prominent, and your legs go way past it compared to, say Cherokees and Skyhawks.  Ironically, if you're short, I think it's more difficult, since more of your body is forward of the center pedestal, so you'd have to slide the seat all the way back.  Throw in a front seat passenger and it's impossible unless you've both practiced ahead of time.
• I still have my Telex microphone sitting in its holder, but it's unplugged.  I should probably check to see if it still works.  I assume the pilot was temporarily nordo because the PTT wire broke when the yoke came off.
• What fraction of Mooney's don't have brakes on the right side?   Mine does and I've always taken that for granted...

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Some nuances I didn't see addressed:

• The commenter claiming to be the pilot did not explicitly indicate if the passenger seat was empty.  He did mention a wife, and having a non-pilot wife in the passenger seat with the only remaining controls could certainly make the switchover extra complicated, no?
• While moving from one front seat to another is doable, it is definitely MORE difficult than some other aircraft.  The center pedestal is quite prominent, and your legs go way past it compared to, say Cherokees and Skyhawks.  Ironically, if you're short, I think it's more difficult, since more of your body is forward of the center pedestal, so you'd have to slide the seat all the way back.  Throw in a front seat passenger and it's impossible unless you've both practiced ahead of time.
• I still have my Telex microphone sitting in its holder, but it's unplugged.  I should probably check to see if it still works.  I assume the pilot was temporarily nordo because the PTT wire broke when the yoke came off.
• What fraction of Mooney's don't have brakes on the right side?   Mine does and I've always taken that for granted...

1) If I told my wife I needed her seat after a yoke came off, she’d be in the back seat before could I get my belt off.

2) trivial difference at best unless you’re in lousy physical shape

3) I hardly use the brakes on the left side unless going into a short field. I’dI likely not miss them at Van Nuy’s 8001’ runway.

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

1) If I told my wife I needed her seat after a yoke came off, she’d be in the back seat before could I get my belt off.

2) trivial difference at best unless you’re in lousy physical shape

3) I hardly use the brakes on the left side unless going into a short field. I’dI likely not miss them at Van Nuy’s 8001’ runway.

Notwithstanding your exquisite proficiency and excellent physical shape, when did brakes become common on the right side in Mooney's?

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Notwithstanding your exquisite proficiency and excellent physical shape, when did brakes become common on the right side in Mooney's?

Pretty sure at least the AT’s would have them, but many aircraft they are an option, my Maule had dual brakes, even my 140 does, my Mooney does not.

I assume dual brakes may have been an option for Mooney’s.

Being a CB I don’t often use brakes, I’m certain given the average 5,000 ft runway once I got slow that gentle S turns would scrub off enough speed to gently make a turn off, where killing the engine would have me coast to a stop.

I say gentle as I avoid side loading, my theory is if high enough it could collapse a main gear, we don’t have down locks do we?

[Shadrach]

On 9/11/2022 at 5:53 PM, jaylw314 said:

Notwithstanding your exquisite proficiency and excellent physical shape, when did brakes become common on the right side in Mooney's?

I am neither exquisite in my proficiency nor in excellent physical shape but then exquisite and excellent are relative terms.  Switching seats would require neither in my opinion.  I think the late 80’s M20J AT (Advanced Trainer) was likely the first Mooney to come with dual brakes from  the factory. When/If they became stock on all models, I can’t say.

[ilovecornfields]

Maybe that’s why he was going to land gear up. Don’t have to worry about wearing out your brake pads that way.

[Marauder]

The guy who experienced the issue commented on the YouTube video that was posted on a different channel. He claimed as the pilot, the plane had just come out of maintenance and the trim was worked on. Apparently the trim was in an extreme nose down position. Although he didn’t say this in writing, it sounds like he pulled the yoke off in an attempt to overcome the heavy nose down trim. He also mentioned that the plane just had a GFC 500 installed and the LVL button saved his life.


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[Marauder]

His responses are buried under one of the replies. His username is Mooney AirVenture.


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[Rusty Pilot]

16 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Some nuances I didn't see addressed:

• The commenter claiming to be the pilot did not explicitly indicate if the passenger seat was empty.  He did mention a wife, and having a non-pilot wife in the passenger seat with the only remaining controls could certainly make the switchover extra complicated, no?
• While moving from one front seat to another is doable, it is definitely MORE difficult than some other aircraft.  The center pedestal is quite prominent, and your legs go way past it compared to, say Cherokees and Skyhawks.  Ironically, if you're short, I think it's more difficult, since more of your body is forward of the center pedestal, so you'd have to slide the seat all the way back.  Throw in a front seat passenger and it's impossible unless you've both practiced ahead of time.
• I still have my Telex microphone sitting in its holder, but it's unplugged.  I should probably check to see if it still works.  I assume the pilot was temporarily nordo because the PTT wire broke when the yoke came off.
• What fraction of Mooney's don't have brakes on the right side?   Mine does and I've always taken that for granted...

My wife frequently climbs from the front seat to the back to attend to a toddler.  It has been a non-issue and I fly a C model,  She is Mooney sized though

[Rusty Pilot]

10 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I am neither exquisite in my proficiency nor in excellent physical shape but then exquisite and excellent are relative terms.  Switching seats would require neither in my opinion.  I think the late 80’s M20J AT (advanced Trainer) was likely the first Mooney to come with dual brakes from  the factory. When/If they became stock on all models, I can’t say.

Good point about the brakes and declaring an emergency was prudent.  I would expect minimal issue with control on adequate length runway and ultimately shut down or switch seats for braking.

[Shadrach]

On 9/11/2022 at 7:50 PM, A64Pilot said:

 

I say gentle as I avoid side loading, my theory is if high enough it could collapse a main gear, we don’t have down locks do we?

Each gear assembly should be rigged to lock over center. If properly rigged, the gear is not coming up under load unless some very large steel fasteners/tubing break. The system is robust and when well maintained, not prone to collapse.  I have seen after pics of an off airport "landing" where a main gear axel/wheel was bent enough that the tire was rubbing the gear leg and the gear remained deployed.

[ZuluZulu]

We all want the same thing, pilots and non-pilots alike:

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Marauder said:

The guy who experienced the issue commented on the YouTube video that was posted on a different channel. He claimed as the pilot, the plane had just come out of maintenance and the trim was worked on. Apparently the trim was in an extreme nose down position. Although he didn’t say this in writing, it sounds like he pulled the yoke off in an attempt to overcome the heavy nose down trim. He also mentioned that the plane just had a GFC 500 installed and the LVL button saved his life.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

If the plane just had a GFC installed, I’m wondering if they removed the bolt that holds the wheel to the shaft in order routed the wires down the column, then forgot to reinstall it?  I can’t imagine how else it would fall off.

We found this one left loose after a GFC installation recently.

[jamesm]

11 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

If the plane just had a GFC installed, I’m wondering if they removed the bolt that holds the wheel to the shaft in order routed the wires down the column, then forgot to reinstall it?  I can’t imagine how else it would fall off.

We found this one left loose after a GFC installation recently.

the outfit the installed my GFC500 did. I am not sure why though. they replace pin that holds it on.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, jamesm said:

the outfit the installed my GFC500 did. I am not sure why though. they replace pin that holds it on.

Ease of fishing the new wires down the yoke and column?

[jamesm]

I guess I am lucky ... I didn't any problems of removing the clock and fishing the wire that route but two each there own.

[Fly Boomer]

On 9/11/2022 at 1:29 PM, jaylw314 said:

Mine does and I've always taken that for granted...

I can confirm that as of 1989 not all have them.  I think it was an option.