Learners

[BobbyH]

Call me an educator, instructor or coach, I have years of working with students of all ages and enjoy it deeply.  One of my goals is to help my students to become life long learners.  There is still so much for me to learn, so that makes me a student with a love of learning. 

Bob

[hammdo]

'OR to EE'

Soon it will be Learnor to Learnee...

Yep, made that up, thank me later

;o)

-Don

Edited March 28, 2022 by hammdo

[AdventureD]

On 3/24/2022 at 3:53 PM, donkaye said:

Obviously, it's more than just the word but that's about as far into the political realm that I want to go.

"Student" pilot has meaning in aviation.  It means someone who has not yet passed their check ride.  "Learner" is what we all are.  I think we were all taught that it's a license is a license to learn, and none of us wants to stop learning. 

It's ridiculous that authorities assign a word to students that appears to put them on equal footing with those who have passed their check ride.  Why?  It's pretty much like all the participation trophies that kids get for playing soccer, and all the cheers they get from mom, dad, uncle "Great Job," and aunt "Way To Go Bambi" for simply kicking the ball into oblivion.  Everyone deserves a trophy!  If we're all equal now, why bother ever taking instruction?  Obviously, none of us needs it.  We are all just different levels of learners.

Not sure whether any of this is related to what irks Don, but when I received flight instruction from him on how to fly and land a Mooney, I felt like a student, which is what I was compared to him in the Mooney.  I suspect he'd say we are both always learning. 

Replacing the word "student" with "learner" is just STUPID.

Loved being a student and love learning in my Mooney Bravo,

Dan

Edited March 31, 2022 by AdventureD
Clarification

[ilovecornfields]

22 minutes ago, AdventureD said:

"Student" pilot has meaning in aviation.  It means someone who has not yet passed their check ride.  "Learner" is what we all are.  I think we were all taught that it's a license is a license to learn, and none of us wants to stop learning. 

It's ridiculous that authorities assign a word to students that appears to put them on equal footing with those who have passed their check ride.  Why?  It's pretty much like all the participation trophies that kids get for playing soccer, and all the cheers they get from mom, dad, uncle "Great Job," and aunt "Way To Go Bambi" for simply kicking the ball into oblivion.  Everyone deserves a trophy!  If we're all equal now, why bother ever taking instruction?  Obviously, none of us needs it.  We are all just different levels of learners.

Not sure whether any of this is related to what irks Don, but when I received flight instruction from him on how to fly and land a Mooney, I felt like a student, which is what I was compared to him in the Mooney.  I suspect he'd say we are both always learning. 

Replacing the word "student" with "learner" is just STUPID.

Loved being a student and love learning in my Mooney Bravo,

Dan

Uh oh! Now the FAA is forcing business schools to do it as well! I never knew they were so powerful. What’s next, colleges and universities?

https://www.aacsb.edu/insights/articles/2020/07/developing-learners-vs-teaching-students
 

Is this really the hill you want to die on? I know people who aren’t in academia see this as proof that the sky is falling, the liberals are taking over and we will never be able to recover from this and Make Aviation Great Again but that’s simply not the case. I’m baffled that people who should really know better choose to get so upset over something that they don’t even understand instead of just spending a few minutes looking into why the change was actually made and trying to learn something from it (or should I say “student something from it”).

If you go around looking for ways that the world is out to get you then you’ll find them - regardless of whether or not they actually exist. But I guess some people live like Joseph Heller’s fictional character and are convinced that “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you.” If that’s how you feel then the wild must be a very uncomfortable and scary place.

 

 

[AdventureD]

8 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Uh oh! Now the FAA is forcing business schools to do it as well! I never knew they were so powerful. What’s next, colleges and universities?

https://www.aacsb.edu/insights/articles/2020/07/developing-learners-vs-teaching-students
 

Is this really the hill you want to die on? I know people who aren’t in academia see this as proof that the sky is falling, the liberals are taking over and we will never be able to recover from this and Make Aviation Great Again but that’s simply not the case. I’m baffled that people who should really know better choose to get so upset over something that they don’t even understand instead of just spending a few minutes looking into why the change was actually made and trying to learn something from it (or should I say “student something from it”).

If you go around looking for ways that the world is out to get you then you’ll find them - regardless of whether or not they actually exist. But I guess some people live like Joseph Heller’s fictional character and are convinced that “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you.” If that’s how you feel then the wild must be a very uncomfortable and scary place.

 

 

I've been in acadamia (econ professor at several universities; still publishing articles in relevant journals).  My opinion is that this is yet another example of "equality" oriented language that is more harmful than it is helpful.  But others are certainly entitled to their own opinion. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by AdventureD
Clarification

[haymak3r]

As somebody whom just passed their checkride, I fully endorse the term student.  I felt like I was in college again, and it was great! Stressful, overwhelming, but so satisfying. To not be called a student during that time to me undermines the importance. as a newly minted private pilot, I also take the learner stance now more than a student. I will continue to learn about aviation, and grow my skills forever. 

[ilovecornfields]

53 minutes ago, AdventureD said:

"equality" oriented language that is more harmful than it is helpful.

Please, tell me how you arrived at your conclusion that this is more harmful than helpful. The only “harm” I have seen from this change is the elevated blood pressure amidst a flurry of hyperbolic statements about how the end of the world is coming because of the change in wording from “student” to “learner.” Did you walk over to the education department and ask them about this? Did you read the article I linked? Did you spend ANY time actually trying to understand why people are using the term “learner” instead of student? Or did you just decide you already knew the answer and couldn’t be bothered to actually look things up and maybe learn something new. Sounds like you’re not behaving like a learner…

I agree with you that there is a problem here, but the problem I’m seeing isn’t changing the word “student” to “learner” - it’s this virus that seems to have infected everyone and makes them completely incapable of evaluating information for themselves, educating themselves on a subject and then forming an informed opinion (which, ironically, is what a learner would do). Instead, people just look for inflammatory things, start going off half-cocked on social media about how it’s proof of “them” attacking “us” and how the world is changing for the worse and if we don’t “fight back” our way of life will be irreparably doomed. 

[Fly Boomer]

20 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

if we don’t “fight back” our way of life will be irreparably doomed. 

What's for lunch?

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, AdventureD said:

I've been in acadamia (econ professor at several universities; still publishing articles in relevant journals).  My opinion is that this is yet another example of "equality" oriented language that is more harmful than it is helpful.  But others are certainly entitled to their own opinion. 

Way cool!

The MS college professor list is getting longer!

We have a few that post often…

Help my memory… See if you can add an Econ related pic to your avatar area… 

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

7 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Please, tell me how you arrived at your conclusion that this is more harmful than helpful. The only “harm” I have seen from this change is the elevated blood pressure amidst a flurry of hyperbolic statements about how the end of the world is coming because of the change in wording from “student” to “learner.” Did you walk over to the education department and ask them about this? Did you read the article I linked? Did you spend ANY time actually trying to understand why people are using the term “learner” instead of student? Or did you just decide you already knew the answer and couldn’t be bothered to actually look things up and maybe learn something new. Sounds like you’re not behaving like a learner…

I agree with you that there is a problem here, but the problem I’m seeing isn’t changing the word “student” to “learner” - it’s this virus that seems to have infected everyone and makes them completely incapable of evaluating information for themselves, educating themselves on a subject and then forming an informed opinion (which, ironically, is what a learner would do). Instead, people just look for inflammatory things, start going off half-cocked on social media about how it’s proof of “them” attacking “us” and how the world is changing for the worse and if we don’t “fight back” our way of life will be irreparably doomed. 

Wow, really got your feathers ruffled that not everyone agrees with you, huh?  Amazing how worrying about how others don't agree with you is "a hill you want to die on!"

I read your linked article and my take is, "what a load of crap!"  The only 'reason' really stated by the author was, "Students study and learners learn".  Seriously???  The author later goes on to posit that "student" is negative as students only learn in a classroom!  Guess I had it all wrong as a student...I listened in the classroom and studied elsewhere so that I could LEARN the material.  Good grief if this is what today's academics consider 'progress'  All of the author's claimed benefits were just a broken record of what the outcome of going to a good school as a student has always amounted to.  Zero evidence of how changing from calling students to calling them learners changes success one whit.  Utter speculation.

Perhaps you should take AdventureD's advice and allow others entitlement to their own opinions rather than claiming we have become infected with some virus that prevents us from agreeing with you!

[Guest]

I’m amazed that a group of obviously smart and learned pilots have wasted so many words in this thread.  There must be bigger fish to fry.

Clarence

[donkaye]

17 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’m amazed that a group of obviously smart and learned pilots have wasted so many words in this thread.  There must be bigger fish to fry.

Clarence

The fact that they have indicates the relevance of the thread.  There's more to it than meets the eye.  I haven't done another Gleim Module for the FIRC since I got so irritated with the word.  Unless I can change my attitude (unlikely), I'll renew my CFI through the Wings Program, having already more than met the requirements.

[ilovecornfields]

22 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’m amazed that a group of obviously smart and learned pilots have wasted so many words in this thread.  There must be bigger fish to fry.

Clarence

I agree. How about I concede it’s a liberal conspiracy to take over the world and then we can talk about something else. Anyone watch the Oscars?

[cferr59]

25 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’m amazed that a group of obviously smart and learned pilots have wasted so many words in this thread.  There must be bigger fish to fry.

Clarence

Next thing you know 'der gonna be callin' pilots airpeople.

[MikeOH]

14 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I agree. How about I concede it’s a liberal conspiracy to take over the world and then we can talk about something else. Anyone watch the Oscars?

 

[Hank]

36 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I agree. How about I concede it’s a liberal conspiracy to take over the world and then we can talk about something else. Anyone watch the Oscars?

No, but I've seen many replays of the excitement. Make fun of my sick wife, it won't be an open hand that you feel . . . . And yes, I'll pay your dental bill afterwards if you're big enough to make me.

Sure, I have a good sense of humor. Poke fun at me all you want. Make fun of my wife for being sick at your own risk. I stand by my wife, and will stand up for her if she can't. It's called respect, bozo the alleged comedian had none, and I hope he learned a lesson the easy but embarrassing way. Sadly, Hollywood is blaming Will Smith's action on Donald Trump and white privilege.  

Now that the storms blew through last night, and the tornado sirens woke us up several times but didn't materialize, I need to go fly! As soon as annual wraps up, that is.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Hank

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cferr59 said:

Next thing you know 'der gonna be callin' pilots airpeople.

I vote for “Air heads”

Clarence

[RLCarter]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I vote for “Air heads”

Clarence

It is gender neutral 

[Hank]

9 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I vote for “Air heads”

Clarence

Has "flyboy" become pejorative now, or is it too gender-specific for a group that is 94% male? Sorry, can I not say "male" anymore?

[A64Pilot]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

No, but I've seen many replays of the excitement. Make fun of my sick wife, it won't be an open hand that you feel . . . . And yes, I'll pay your dental bill afterwards if you're big enough to make me.

Sure, I have a good sense of humor. Poke fun at me all you want. Make fun of my wife for being sick at your own risk. I stand by my wife, and will stand up for her if she can't. It's called respect, bozo the alleged comedian had none, and I hope he learned a lesson the easy but embarrassing way. Sadly, Hollywood is blaming Will Smith's action on Donald Trump and white privilege.  

Now that the storms blew through last night, and the tornado sirens woke us up several times but didn't materialize, I need to go fly! As soon as annual wraps up, that is.

Back in the day he would have been cheered, it’s what a man should have done. Personally I think he displayed enormous restraint by slapping.

The wrong person is being punished and made to apologize. Is he supposed to apologize for defending his Lady? Isn’t that a man’s role?

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by A64Pilot

[mike_elliott]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:25 PM, Eight8Victor said:

I propose we start using the term “fixers” in place of mechanics

and 'breakers' instead of pilots

[steingar]

It would be cooler if they called them Padawan learners.

[MikeOH]

10 hours ago, steingar said:

It would be cooler if they called them Padawan learners.

I think we are in more of a, "Let the FARCE be with you!" situation.

[Spurious Moppet]

It’s great how much thoughtful consideration and discussion the FAA has spurred on around this important topic. I feel like a much better, safer Air Mission already.

Now, we just need to graduate from Learners to Understanders. Then it will it all make sense.

[Schllc]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:09 AM, A64Pilot said:

Back in the day he would have been cheered, it’s what a man should have done. Personally I think he displayed enormous restraint by slapping.

The wrong person is being punished and made to apologize. Is he supposed to apologize for defending his Lady? Isn’t that a man’s role?

 

I wouldn’t argue with the principle of what you said but context is pretty important. 
the guys a comedian, it was a joke not an insult, the joke was pretty benign, and there are probably about a million better ways to handle the situation that a violent public assault. 
if you were to go around slapping everyone that offended you, I don’t think you would be where you are today. 
the joke may have been in poor taste, but what smith did was a completely disproportionate response, and showed bad judgement. 
if the victim had decided to press charges, would it have been worth the night in jail and a felony assault charge?  I would say no, but to each their own.