Filler Neck Material

[SLOWR426]

Our F model has one aluminum fuel filler neck and one steel.  The steel one is corroded to hell.  Does anyone know why Mooney would use plain steel for these?  And if aluminum ones are available on stock anywhere?

Our mechanic is suggesting we plate the steel one. Anyone know what the plating material/spec should be?

[N201MKTurbo]

48 minutes ago, SLOWR426 said:

Our F model has one aluminum fuel filler neck and one steel.  The steel one is corroded to hell.  Does anyone know why Mooney would use plain steel for these?  And if aluminum ones are available on stock anywhere?

Our mechanic is suggesting we plate the steel one. Anyone know what the plating material/spec should be?

It is most likely cadmium. There are quite a few shops that can plate it.

BTW, the neck on my old F Mooney was all rusted. I just sanded it in place. Then carefully masked the hole from the bottom and top and then painted it with zinc chromate. It was perfect for the next 10 years until I sold it.

Edited March 22, 2022 by N201MKTurbo

[carusoam]

52 minutes ago, SLOWR426 said:

Our F model has one aluminum fuel filler neck and one steel.  The steel one is corroded to hell.  Does anyone know why Mooney would use plain steel for these?  And if aluminum ones are available on stock anywhere?

Our mechanic is suggesting we plate the steel one. Anyone know what the plating material/spec should be?

Check with Mooney… through the MSC network…

Options for this part are mild steel crap… or stainless steel…

The mild steel crap gets stressed when pressed into shape and slowly corrodes over the decades…

While dropping little rust bits into your fuel system that make nice rusty color water droplets in your fuel separator….

 

So… find the SS ones…

 

My 65C had the steel ones… that literally rusted through from the inside of the tank… while the plane lived outdoors…

The old steel parts have enough safety issues… it is better to not try to save what is left… and replace with the newer material…

Water and rust bits are not good for the engine…

Take a pic from inside of the tank looking up at the back of the fuel neck…  see what it looks like… post the pic…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[M20F-1968]

Unrivet both of them and replace them with stainless steel.  You must buy them new and undrilled so you can match drill to the holes already in the wing.

I believe the new ones (which I have) are sufficiently small to deter the introduction of the wrong fuel.

John Breda

[67 m20F chump]

I swapped out the wing on my 67’F.  The old wing had the good fuel inlet.  The 2 wings matched for where the holes were drilled.  Both wings were from the same year and only about 20 numbers apart but possibly they used a jig on this part.

[SLOWR426]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:56 AM, M20F-1968 said:

Unrivet both of them and replace them with stainless steel.  You must buy them new and undrilled so you can match drill to the holes already in the wing.

I believe the new ones (which I have) are sufficiently small to deter the introduction of the wrong fuel.

John Breda

Thank you, John. Do you know where you got your new stainless fuel filler necks?  We're having a hard time, and Mooney is unresponsive.

[SLOWR426]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I actually work in a plating shop, but no plating can overcome the corrosion on the o-ring face. The new plating will just conform to the pits.  So it looks like we'd have to sand out the corrosion, then plate.  If we do it in-place, I like the zinc chromate paint idea.  If we remove it, I'll plate it with electroless nickel or zincate & a real chromate conversion coating.

Any ideas how to prevent galvanic corrosion on reassembly?

Ideally we'd just like to replace this darn fuel filler neck with a new one; factory or aftermarket.  Does anyone know any sources?  Mooney is unresponsive.  I looked through the Wing section of the illustrated parts diagrams and can't find a part number for this thing at all.

[LANCECASPER]

30 minutes ago, SLOWR426 said:

Ideally we'd just like to replace this darn fuel filler neck with a new one; factory or aftermarket.  Does anyone know any sources?  Mooney is unresponsive.  

Mooney won't deal directly with you, but if you call a service center they may be able to help. Dan at LASAR is the best.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SLOWR426 said:

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I actually work in a plating shop, but no plating can overcome the corrosion on the o-ring face. The new plating will just conform to the pits.  So it looks like we'd have to sand out the corrosion, then plate.  If we do it in-place, I like the zinc chromate paint idea.  If we remove it, I'll plate it with electroless nickel or zincate & a real chromate conversion coating.

Any ideas how to prevent galvanic corrosion on reassembly?

Ideally we'd just like to replace this darn fuel filler neck with a new one; factory or aftermarket.  Does anyone know any sources?  Mooney is unresponsive.  I looked through the Wing section of the illustrated parts diagrams and can't find a part number for this thing at all.

From memory, there was on owner here on MS who got a field approval to install smaller cap style used on newer Mooneys.  It was some time ago.

Clarence

[carusoam]

MSCs should be able to have the parts…

But, if that doesn’t work…

MS’s pre-flown parts department probably has a few….

Check in with @Alan Fox @Jerry Pressley and @SheryLoewen

get the SS version….

Then check in with OSU regarding the blue silicone seals…

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry Pressley]

have a few if you havent found one

 

[carusoam]

@SLOWR426 see replies above…

-a-

[M20F-1968]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:43 PM, SLOWR426 said:

Thank you, John. Do you know where you got your new stainless fuel filler necks?  We're having a hard time, and Mooney is unresponsive.

I obtained them from LASAR around 2007.   

FWIW:  I have a set of the smaller caps (www.newton.com) with key lock being used on the new production airplanes, and those planes with fuel bladders installed.

I can be reached at john.breda@gmail.com or at my cell (617) 877-0025.

John Breda

[Bob E]

On 3/21/2022 at 9:01 PM, carusoam said:

Check with Mooney… through the MSC network…

Options for this part are mild steel crap… or stainless steel…

The mild steel crap gets stressed when pressed into shape and slowly corrodes over the decades…

While dropping little rust bits into your fuel system that make nice rusty color water droplets in your fuel separator….

 

So… find the SS ones…

 

My 65C had the steel ones… that literally rusted through from the inside of the tank… while the plane lived outdoors…

The old steel parts have enough safety issues… it is better to not try to save what is left… and replace with the newer material…

Water and rust bits are not good for the engine…

Take a pic from inside of the tank looking up at the back of the fuel neck…  see what it looks like… post the pic…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

Exactly my experience with my '65 C.  Replaced both with stainless steel 15 years ago and they've looked like new since.

[SLOWR426]

On 3/21/2022 at 5:50 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

It is most likely cadmium. There are quite a few shops that can plate it.

BTW, the neck on my old F Mooney was all rusted. I just sanded it in place. Then carefully masked the hole from the bottom and top and then painted it with zinc chromate. It was perfect for the next 10 years until I sold it.

Thanks for the info!  FYI the mail spec says that fuel system components should not be coated/plated with anything that can flake off like Cadmium.  I’ll just leave this here for future reference.

[SLOWR426]

Has anyone bought a fuel system component from Parker Hannifin or a distributor?  They bought out the old fuel manufacturer Shaw Aero Devices and can make all the old stuff, but I’m getting challenged by them, saying they won’t even quote me for a repair application because it’s a certified aircraft.

Can anyone recommend a response that I can go back to them with? Perhaps saying it will be installed with a field exception or DER/DAR sign off?  I don’t know the right lingo.

[carusoam]

Parker Hannifin is a giant manufacturer of all things tubes, fittings, brakes, industrial, and aviation…. And O2 systems…

It shouldn’t be a challenge to buy airplane parts from anyone…

The challenge is installing them on the plane…. This is where your mechanic has the blessing to do the work…

 

Oddly, I ran into the same challenge 20years ago trying to buy replacement fuel caps for my M20C…

The other fuel cap manufacturer my plane had…. Didn’t want to sell to the airplane market….  But race cars for them was OK… 

 

There must be 25 different model numbers for the fuel caps… they all look alike… but don’t fit in the fuel neck in all planes….

So…. If you know the model or part number for the device your are trying to buy…

You don’t need to be the mechanic to buy it…

Probably takes some practice to sound confident you are doing the right thing… 
 

If they won’t sell directly to customers… because of their distribution agreements… find out their recommendation for where to buy it from…

If you can’t get past that wall of sales prevention…

Find Dan at Lasar… he can sell you the proper parts for your plane…

Best regards,

-a-

[SLOWR426]

So Parker Hannifin is saying they don’t have a PMA (part manufacturer authorization) from the FAA.  I had no idea the FAA has to approve every part / manufacturer combination of MS spec parts.

[Schllc]

On 4/5/2022 at 7:01 PM, M20Doc said:

From memory, there was on owner here on MS who got a field approval to install smaller cap style used on newer Mooneys.  It was some time ago.

Clarence

 

Scannable Document on Mar 8, 2021 at 9_50_13 AM.pdf

[carusoam]

22 hours ago, SLOWR426 said:

So Parker Hannifin is saying they don’t have a PMA (part manufacturer authorization) from the FAA.  I had no idea the FAA has to approve every part / manufacturer combination of MS spec parts.

yes… certified airplanes come with certified parts…. Or parts designed and built by Mooney prior to the plane’s certification…

There are benefits to this whole certification thing…. 
 

Sounds like PH lost the PMA when they bought the Shaw Aero fuel cap company…?   More digging needed to find the truth behind that…

We have a fuel cap guy that may have insight… @OSUAV8TER… (have new Shaw fuel caps become unavailable?)

 

Shaw fuel caps were traditionally ridiculously expensive…

So… it may make good sense to go with a modern fuel cap that is smaller in size, and lockable, to avoid getting kerosene delivered….  It can’t be worse or more expensive….  And that would bring you up to a modern Mooney standard…. Or is that a post modern Mooney?
 

PP thoughts only,

-a-