Ground damage

[larrynimmo]

A fellow pilot backed into my elevator….

ideas please 

[Boilermonkey]

Do you have the other pilot's insurance company info?

[larrynimmo]

4 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

Do you have the other pilot's insurance company info?

He agreed to pay for repairs, plus both of our AI witnessed him backing his car into it 

[kortopates]

Pull the elevator and ship to Beagles Aircraft in Greeley CO, they’re one of best sheet metal repair stations in the country. they may have one available for exchange too, but wouldn’t count on it.


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[larrynimmo]

15 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Pull the elevator and ship to Beagles Aircraft in Greeley CO, they’re one of best sheet metal repair stations in the country. they may have one available for exchange too, but wouldn’t count on it.


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I spoke with them…they will quote me

[N201MKTurbo]

+1 For Beegels. They did two major repairs on my old F. (Neither of which I did). Their work is top notch.

[N201MKTurbo]

You need to inspect the tail mounting on the tailcone to make sure you didn’t tweak it.

[GeeBee]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I would think the empennage needs to be removed for a proper inspection.  

Absolutely. I would not fly it until the entire section was removed and inspected.

 

[larrynimmo]

14 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

This looks like more than a "tweak".  Any idea the size of the gap before the left side of the horizontal stabilizer mashed into the fuselage? I bet it deflected an inch - the question is did it spring back or take a permanent bend.

And any idea the size of the gap gap between the right side of the horizontal stabilizer both before and now after? - i.e. evidence of permanent twist and deflection in the hinges and/or the stabilizer itself?

On the other side there is 1/4” gap where originally likely 1/16 -1/8” gap

[N201MKTurbo]

35 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I would think the empennage needs to be removed for a proper inspection.  

Maybe, I would have to look at it. My memory isn't as good as it once was. I think you can see all the spars and attach points either directly or with a borescope. I would be looking for anything broken bent or buckled. 

[larrynimmo]

18 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Maybe, I would have to look at it. My memory isn't as good as it once was. I think you can see all the spars and attach points either directly or with a borescope. I would be looking for anything broken bent or buckled. 

I discussed with AI and we will likely remove empennage…really doesn’t look that difficult…frankly there’s no way that any of the bolts were significantly stressed, but stress was relieved by popping several rivets..in this pic the angle plate is now about 3/16” out from its original position…picture should be rotated to the left…passenger side of plane

Edited March 14, 2022 by larrynimmo
Clarification

[N201MKTurbo]

12 minutes ago, larrynimmo said:

I discussed with AI and we will likely remove empennage…really doesn’t look that difficult…frankly there’s no way that any of the bolts were significantly stressed, but stress was relieved by popping several rivets..in this pic the angle plate is now about 3/16” out from its original position…picture should be rotated to the left…passenger side of plane

Oh my, you have some work to do...

Sorry for your loss...

 

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, larrynimmo said:

He agreed to pay for repairs, plus both of our AI witnessed him backing his car into it 

His tune may change when he hears how much this will cost to do properly. Make sure you get his insurance information early in this process, like now,  before things go sideways.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

A 3/16 inch deflection that is about 3-4 inches from the center translates to a 3-4 inch deflection 5.5 ft outboard (at the outboard tip of the horizontal stabilizer and elevator).  Doesn't this likely mean serious internal twisting that can't be repaired? - maybe a salvage empennage is the best way to go?

I would talk to Beegles about it. I've never done a repair like that. A salvage tail is probably your best bet. I hope you don't need a selvage tail cone to go along with it.

[larrynimmo]

From the inside it looks like this….

it’s my thought that we can drill out about 12-18 rivets and put back in place and re-rivet…it looks like most of the shock was absorbed in the crushing elevator, and then the empennage attempted to twist,and rivets snapped

my AI will give the final verdict of how we are proceeding…my background years ago was repairing ships.

 

picture should be turned 90 degrees to the left

the bulkhead of the empennage looks absolutely perfect with no damage …of course pilots side fairing will need to be replaced.

as for the elevator, I am hoping to find a suitable candidate.

[larrynimmo]

5 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I would talk to Beegles about it. I've never done a repair like that. A salvage tail is probably your best bet. I hope you don't need a selvage tail cone to go along with it.

I do want it fixed right and to be safe…if AI feels he can’t do it right, or if he can’t straighten it like new, then we will shop for a whole empennage 

[larrynimmo]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

some automobile policies have exclusions for damage to aircraft

Hopefully it can be easily resolved…if not there are remedies.   The driver is a very responsible person

[LANCECASPER]

some automobile policies have exclusions for damage to aircraft

My point exactly - find out any glitches now rather than later. He still feels bad than he ran into the airplane. He might even sign an admission that is was completely his fault and he will pay all repair costs at this point. That will go away soon when he finds out the estimate


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[carusoam]

See if I got the pic rotations correct…

See if @Alan Fox has the extra parts…

Good luck with the next steps…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

some automobile policies have exclusions for damage to aircraft

I ran into my plane once, back in ‘84. Neither the airplane or car insurance would cover it when you run into your own stuff. So I started parking behind other planes.

[Alan Fox]

The crucifix needs to be removed , It may be a better job to replace it with a used one , They are hard to sell and you may get one for about 5 K or so , I have an elevator , but from what I see there is about 10K or more in damage... Trust me when I tell you there is a lot more damage than the pulled skin... You need to have someone who knows these planes to inspect the empenagge FORWARD of the hinge/screwjack / pivot....   To rip skin from rivets is a tremendous amount of energy required ,  There is more damage than pictured.... ( I could be wrong , but It looks bad )  

[N201MKTurbo]

32 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I ran into my plane once, back in ‘84. Neither the airplane or car insurance would cover it when you run into your own stuff. So I started parking behind other planes.

Ok, I’m getting old and I don’t care anymore...

So, I had a Nissan 280Z. It was parked behind the wing. I was working on the plane. I don’t remember what I was working on. Anyway I had the radio playing for a few hours, so I thought I should start the engine to charge the battery. I reached in and turned the key. It started right up. It was in gear!!!

The car idled under the wing and lifted the whole plane up by the flap hinge. The headlight cutout caught th3 flap and tore the metal a bit. The flap hinge made a righteous crease in the hood of the Z car. 
 

I ordered a new flap from Mooney. Then I talked to Beegles who said they can just replace the skins. I called Mooney and canceled the flap order. When Beegles ordered the flap skins, they sent the flap I ordered. So I got a new flap for the price of a flap skin. Beegles painted it for the price of A flap skin.I must live a charmed life.

As far as the car was concerned, I used the car to do service calls when the weather was to bad to fly. The 280Z would rather go backwards in the ice than forwards. So I kind of wrecked it a few times driving in the Rockies during severe weather.when I had enough insurance claims to get it fixed. I ended up taking it to one of the finest body shops in the USA. It took them forever to finish it. When it was done it looked WAY better then new. It was beautiful! From that point on it was like I had my own cop every time I drove it. I finally had to sell it to this females flight instructor, so I would not get any more tickets. I was hoping to hook up with her...., never happened.

[larrynimmo]

16 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Ok, I’m getting old and I don’t care anymore...

So, I had a Nissan 280Z. It was parked behind the wing. I was working on the plane. I don’t remember what I was working on. Anyway I had the radio playing for a few hours, so I thought I should start the engine to charge the battery. I reached in and turned the key. It started right up. It was in gear!!!

The car idled under the wing and lifted the whole plane up by the flap hinge. The headlight cutout caught th3 flap and tore the metal a bit. The flap hinge made a righteous crease in the hood of the Z car. 
 

I ordered a new flap from Mooney. Then I talked to Beegles who said they can just replace the skins. I called Mooney and canceled the flap order. When Beegles ordered the flap skins, they sent the flap I ordered. So I got a new flap for the price of a flap skin. Beegles painted it for the price of A flap skin.I must live a charmed life.

As far as the car was concerned, I used the car to do service calls when the weather was to bad to fly. The 280Z would rather go backwards in the ice than forwards. So I kind of wrecked it a few times driving in the Rockies during severe weather.when I had enough insurance claims to get it fixed. I ended up taking it to one of the finest body shops in the USA. It took them forever to finish it. When it was done it looked WAY better then new. It was beautiful! From that point on it was like I had my own cop every time I drove it. I finally had to sell it to this females flight instructor, so I would not get any more tickets. I was hoping to hook up with her...., never happened.

That is a great story…I only hope my resolution is as pleasant…be glad that female flight instructor got away as the cost of that relationship likely was greater than the value of the plane…you just failed to realize that at the time!

[N201MKTurbo]

4 minutes ago, larrynimmo said:

That is a great story…I only hope my resolution is as pleasant…be glad that female flight instructor got away as the cost of that relationship likely was greater than the value of the plane…you just failed to realize that at the time!

I was like 28 years old! With a plane, a fast car, and sadly, not a fast woman....

[N201MKTurbo]

Btw, in ‘84, a new flap was $700. What do you think it would be today?