Hesitation Going To Full Glass

[GeneralT001]

Hi All,

I'm kinda long in the tooth and old school. I'm wondering if my fears of dropping the old 6 pack and going full glass (GTN750Xi/G3X/GI275) are valid? I've always liked having an AI with command bars and flying approaches on an HSI/CDI dedicated instrument with bearing pointers/DME/etc. But of course having a moving map GPS for route info is ideal.

So, for those who have made the transition...is it a hard one and do you miss having the 6 pack?

Is there a good compromise?

[cbarry]

I made the partial transition.  I have a panel that includes: 2 G5s, surrounded by the traditional Airspeed indicator, turn coordinator, altimeter and VSI.  My center stack holds the GFC500 autopilot, audio panel, IFD540 and GTX 345 transponder.  Then I have a GNC 430W as a secondary unit.  The full glass approach is definitely appealing, but I decided that a blended approach fit my desired result.

[Niko182]

Transition for me was easy. Took maybe an hour, or 2 ish.

[GeneralT001]

3 minutes ago, cbarry said:

I made the partial transition.  I have a panel that includes: 2 G5s, surrounded by the traditional Airspeed indicator, turn coordinator, altimeter and VSI.  My center stack holds the GFC500 autopilot, audio panel, IFD540 and GTX 345 transponder.  Then I have a GNC 430W as a secondary unit.  The full glass approach is definitely appealing, but I decided that a blended approach fit my desired result.

Yeah, I'm definitely torn. It looks like I probably will go full glass, as per my OP, but remain apprehensive.

[GeneralT001]

Just now, Niko182 said:

Transition for me was easy. Took maybe an hour, or 2 ish.

Do you have a picture of what you have right now?

[carusoam]

Some would like to avoid glass because they have a different way to fail…

Some would like to avoid glass for their different presentation…

 

Have a look at the glass options…

Some have a retro style display… option.

 

Either way… expect with the new hardware there is going to be some unease in transition…

 

It probably goes pretty smoothly… unless you have some serious age related cognitive issues…. 

There is so much going on in that first year of ownership…. There is no need to rush into another change….

Let the brain catch up… 

Mechanical gauges are pretty far from ideal at presentation….

Glass panels have been designed  to be a really easy transition… because their presentation is so logical… they aren’t limited to black and white needles on a circular background….

PP thoughts only not a cog therapist….

 

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

The GI-275s look like a good compromise if you are torn. You can always use one of them for backup if you decide later to do full glass. These were really designed for people who were raised on round dials, but want the reliability of solid state and compatibility with other legacy things.

[GeneralT001]

1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

The GI-275s look like a good compromise if you are torn. 

Thing is...if you want a nice moving map display (G3X) and GPS WAAS/approach charts/airport diagrams/radio/Transponder/etc (GTN750Xi) then there isn't a heck of a lot of real estate left for a couple of GI275's.

[PeteMc]

GI275s really and can give you the best of both worlds.  Maybe just put in two as you AI and HSI, you can actually make them look like the old style.  then start looking at the different options and switching them to different screens in the various stages of flight.  Once you get use to them, decide if you want to switch up to a single bigger screen.

If you do, one of the 275s becomes your backup and you can decide if you want to keep the second one or sell it.

For the GPS, GTN750 is a nice box and works well with the 275s.  But if you don't want that size map, consider the GTN650 which is the same box with a smaller screen.

[GeneralT001]

1 minute ago, PeteMc said:

GI275s really and can give you the best of both worlds.  Maybe just put in two as you AI and HSI, you can actually make them look like the old style.  then start looking at the different options and switching them to different screens in the various stages of flight.  Once you get use to them, decide if you want to switch up to a single bigger screen.

If you do, one of the 275s becomes your backup and you can decide if you want to keep the second one or sell it.

For the GPS, GTN750 is a nice box and works well with the 275s.  But if you don't want that size map, consider the GTN650 which is the same box with a smaller screen.

Definitely want the larger screen of the 750....hate the price hit though

I think I know what I'm going to do in the end....just working on convincing myself its the right way to go

[Niko182]

36 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

Thing is...if you want a nice moving map display (G3X) and GPS WAAS/approach charts/airport diagrams/radio/Transponder/etc (GTN750Xi) then there isn't a heck of a lot of real estate left for a couple of GI275's.

If you want a good medium you could do 2 gi275s and a g3x 7 inch mfd. I'd still recommend a g3x 10 inch, but im biased. This is what i have. If you are ever around socal, let me know and ill gladly show you and let you play around with it. 

Nik

[carusoam]

Nik’s pic shows a G5… a nice square device…. A pair of them is a nice step into the glass panel arena…

Similarly a pair of GI275s are getting dropped into many existing panels with round holes…

 

If you start with a pair of these modern devices… one gets retained as a back-up to your future big screen…

The other one goes in front of your SIC or the for sale section around here…

-a- 

[GeneralT001]

12 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

If you want a good medium you could do 2 gi275s and a g3x 7 inch mfd. I'd still recommend a g3x 10 inch, but im biased. This is what i have. If you are ever around socal, let me know and ill gladly show you and let you play around with it. 

Nik

Amazing how much simpler it looks...I like where the trim/flap indicators are.

[Niko182]

3 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

Amazing how much simpler it looks...I like where the trim/flap indicators are.

I think if i could do it again, i might do a gtn650 instead of the gnx375. Other than that I love it. I went for simplicity. I didn't want too many screams crammed into the panel since there isnt a ton of space in the mooney panel. Thats just me though.

[GeneralT001]

9 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I think if i could do it again, i might do a gtn650 instead of the gnx375. Other than that I love it. I went for simplicity. I didn't want too many screams crammed into the panel since there isnt a ton of space in the mooney panel. Thats just me though.

By the looks of it you could get the GTN750Xi in there...seems to be a fair bit of room?

[Niko182]

10 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

By the looks of it you could get the GTN750Xi in there...seems to be a fair bit of room?

I could. The thing is i have flown behind a 750xi and it was very nice, but a lot of the extra info on the gtn750, is on the G3X. I honestly really don't feel like i need the extra space on the 750. With the gnx375, it is plenty big enough for me. The only reason I'd want the 650 is cause of the integration of a nav/com/waas gps/transponder, as compared to just a transponder/waas gps.

[hais]

How about getting transition training in a rental or SIM to get a feel? Once you are used to tapes, transitioning to different glasses is straight forward. That way, if you want to go glass route, you can select the one you like most without constraints of familiarity.

[donkaye, MCFI]

If you're "long in the tooth", that's all the more reason for going all glass.  From an instrument point of view, it's much easier to fly on instruments with glass than with a legacy panel.  The whole scan is done in one glance.   It takes a few hours to get used to the tapes.  Once you're comfortable with the display, there is no way you would ever want to go back to the legacy panel.

[hais]

Are you on Vancouver Island @GeneralT001? If so, Pacific Club at Boundary Bay might be a nice option for a SIM transition. 

[GeneralT001]

1 hour ago, hais said:

Are you on Vancouver Island @GeneralT001? If so, Pacific Club at Boundary Bay might be a nice option for a SIM transition. 

Yes, on the Island (Nanaimo). I'll look into that...thanks

[cbarry]

Here’s an example of an “in-between” panel.

[PeteMc]

10 hours ago, GeneralT001 said:

I think I know what I'm going to do in the end....

When you do bite the bullet, be sure to go ALL IN...

If there's something you think you want and are hedging on doing it later, Do It Now.  You can really cut down on the installation costs if everything is already torn open.  And be sure to add the (semi) little things like new antenna cable, panel lighting (what items do you still need post lights for), etc.

[Browncbr1]

15 hours ago, GeneralT001 said:

Definitely want the larger screen of the 750....hate the price hit though

I think I know what I'm going to do in the end....just working on convincing myself its the right way to go

Consider a 650 with an Aera 660 interfaces to it.  It is fantastic.  A poor man’s 750, plus you get synthetic vision with battery backup

You can also mount the Aera vertically next to your efis and it makes a great mfd

i fly a lot of hard IFR with gns and gtns of both sizes.  If you have an iPad for your plates, then all you need is a 650. You can put plates on the Aera, but it’s another subscription cost

Edited January 21, 2022 by Browncbr1

[ArtVandelay]

Consider a 650 with an Aera 660 interfaces to it.  It is fantastic.  A poor man’s 750, plus you get synthetic vision with battery backup
You can also mount the Aera vertically next to your efis and it makes a great mfd
i fly a lot of hard IFR with gns and gtns of both sizes.  If you have an iPad for your plates, then all you need is a 650. You can put plates on the Aera, but it’s another subscription cost

Agreed, you can get a package that includes Aera, GP upgrade, and GTN.

[cliffy]

Old guy transition to new glass has been an "issue" since the first 757 came out. Old 727 pilots had a hard time transitioning to it (and it was the first generation glass) BUT the FMC was the big hurdle.  Not the glass faces.   My transition to the 757 was pretty easy the Airbus was a little more difficult due to different ways of doing things after being 757 qualified. But that's just my experience. 

Buttonology to make all things work is the biggest issue for many. What buttons do I push and when?

Define what you want in a new panel- dual everything or just a good backup "in case"?

Remember "most" glass today has far better MTBFs than any old style legacy electronics. Way better, so chances of needing full back ups to everything is minimal. 

What type of flying are you going to do? Lots of hard IFR or day VFR or an occasional 500 foot approach? 

Your decisions are all based on what YOU are going to do and be comfortable with. 

In today's world we don't really need ADFs, DMEs, Mkr Beacons, etc. We could easily get by for full IFR with one good all in one unit and a basic GPS only radio just for backup in case #1 took a dump IMC. 

Asa point of contrast I went basic VFR only with a 10 inch Dynon HDX and the D-10A backup.

If I ever want full IFR I'll add an IFD 440 and that's it. 

Your money - your decision.   Do at least look at the Dynon HDX   (autopilot pending approval)