O-360 vs IO-360

[Moooney Pit]

Hello everyone. I just recently purchased a 1968 Mooney, without the engine with it. The original engine was an O-360 A1D. Does anyone know if I could retrofit a IO-360 A1A in it? Thank you!

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard…

Yes you can…

Find the STC from Lasar…

Don’t be surprised about the price that goes with it…

For other missing parts… find @Alan Fox…

-a-

[AerostarDriver]

You will likely need new baffling as well as the A1D is a parallel valve and the A1A is an angle valve. If you don't have an engine currently see if you can find something without the RPM restriction.

[Oscar Avalle]

Hello everyone. I just recently purchased a 1968 Mooney, without the engine with it. The original engine was an O-360 A1D. Does anyone know if I could retrofit a IO-360 A1A in it? Thank you!

The question is how much is it worth to upgrade from an O360 to an IO360


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[M20F]

1 hour ago, Oscar Avalle said:

The question is how much is it worth to upgrade from an O360 to an IO360


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Given it has no engine the cost differential isn’t really that bad. 

[Prior owner]

For conversion You will need:

IO-360, completely dressed

STC

Engine Mount 

Engine isolators & bolts

New lower cowl, complete, with flexible ducting

New Exhaust

IO baffling

Ram air cable, switch, CB, warning light

Electric fuel pump 

Fuel pressure gauge

oil cooler

New throttle & mixture controls 

Lots of little parts

I’ve only seen one. He must have had a donor plane for cheap parts..

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

What about the 390?

[pirate]

That would be a fun project. 

[AerostarDriver]

1 hour ago, PilotCoyote said:

For conversion You will need:

IO-360, completely dressed

STC

Engine Mount 

Engine isolators & bolts

New lower cowl, complete, with flexible ducting

New Exhaust

IO baffling

Ram air cable, switch, CB, warning light

Electric fuel pump 

Fuel pressure gauge

oil cooler

New throttle & mixture controls 

Lots of little parts

I’ve only seen one. He must have had a donor plane for cheap parts..

 

 

Given that list it is also hard not to debate putting a J Cowl on it.

[Rwsavory]

I don’t think the fuel injected motor would be an improvement.  Go ahead, flame me.  lol

[Moooney Pit]

Thanks everyone, for the responses. 

[Alan Fox]

I have the mount , the cowl , the baffling , the cables (throttle & Mix) , the oil cooler , 

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, Rwsavory said:

I don’t think the fuel injected motor would be an improvement.  Go ahead, flame me.  lol

Well it’s 20 more hp and who would ever say they want LESS horsepower?! 

[RobertGary1]

4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Well it’s 20 more hp and who would ever say they want LESS horsepower?! 

People love the o-360 like no other aviation engine. It’s bullet proof reliable. 

[0TreeLemur]

I have a kind-of related question- The M20C came from the factory with the O-360-A1D.   As I understand it, this engine is the same as the O-360-A1A, but came with a weird system where the two magnetos were spun off one gear in the accessory case.  The so-called "Dual Magneto" like the Bendix 200 series magneto.  According to what I read, spinning both mags off one plastic gear represents a loss of redundancy that most folks find unfortunate.

Here's my question.   Our M20C has two magnetos installed.  That seems to indicate that somebody converted the A1D in our C to an A1A engine, but I can't find that in the log books.   Am I missing something?  Is this commonly done?  Is there an AD or SB for that?

Thanks.  Inquiring minds....

[EricJ]

44 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

The so-called "Dual Magneto" like the Bendix 200 series magneto.  According to what I read, spinning both mags off one plastic gear represents a loss of redundancy that most folks find unfortunate.

FWIW, the common drive gear in the dual mag is steel, just like it is in just about all mags.   The only plastic gears in the dual mags are the rotors, and they're made of plastic in just about all mags, be they Bendix or Slick.    So there's really no difference from that perspective.

The O-360 with the dual mag was the -A1AD, which I don't think was ever installed in a Mooney.   The -A1D has Bendix 200 series mags.   The only Mooneys with dual mags are J models that have the -A1B6D/-A3B6D.

[0TreeLemur]

3 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The O-360 with the dual mag was the -A1AD, which I don't think was ever installed in a Mooney.   The -A1D has Bendix 200 series mags.   The only Mooneys with dual mags are J models that have the -A1B6D/-A3B6D.

Thanks for clarifying this for me.  This explains why I couldn't find the conversion in the engine logs- never done. 

[0TreeLemur]

 @EricJ, since my engine now has Slick mags installed instead of Bendix, is it actually an A1A?

[Guest]

This Vans RV builder posted this list explaining Lycoming engine model numbering.

http://www.meyette.us/LycomingEngineNumbers.htm

Clarence

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

 @EricJ, since my engine now has Slick mags installed instead of Bendix, is it actually an A1A?

If the data plate, usually on the oil sump/pan/intake, says it's an -A1A, then it's an -A1A.   There is a Lycoming Service Instruction 1443R that shows what slick mags can be installed on Lycoming engines.

 

[RLCarter]

 

6 hours ago, M20Doc said:

This Vans RV builder posted this list explaining Lycoming engine model numbering.

http://www.meyette.us/LycomingEngineNumbers.htm

Clarence

I like the 0-360-E1A6D at 1130hp…..

[Guest]

5 hours ago, RLCarter said:

 

I like the 0-360-E1A6D at 1130hp…..

That makes my IO-720 seem inadequate.

Clarence

[markgrue]

10 hours ago, RLCarter said:

 

I like the 0-360-E1A6D at 1130hp…..

Better than a turbine

Mark

[RLCarter]

1130 hp out of 360 c.i.  Is doable…… but the 2hr TBO makes it a little spendy…

not a Mooney but the guy across from has an 0-360 rated at 145hp (didn’t see it on the list). It’s a strange bird, Piper Tri-Pacer, converted back to a Pacer (tail wheel) with Cessna 150 wings…. 

[RobertGary1]

9 hours ago, RLCarter said:

1130 hp out of 360 c.i.  Is doable…… but the 2hr TBO makes it a little spendy…

not a Mooney but the guy across from has an 0-360 rated at 145hp (didn’t see it on the list). It’s a strange bird, Piper Tri-Pacer, converted back to a Pacer (tail wheel) with Cessna 150 wings…. 

That’s similar to what I fly in the Robinson. The o-360 engine has a lighter weight case so it’s  derated .