Cost of redoing panel / Mooney M20J

[redbaron1982]

Hi all,

I'm in search of my first airplane (I have M20J in mind, eventually M20K 252 or 262). As you all know, there are very few descent alternatives, and some of them have a really "messed up" panel.

My question is, apart from the actual hardware (meaning, radios, audio panels, etc) what's the cost one could expect from redoing a panel, meaning, changing the actual face and relocating some of the instruments and replacing some of them?

I don't want to go extra fancy, like G1000, but for instance, getting the 6 pack properly aligned (some have not the standard layout), and some radios replaced/relocated, some old equipment removed (like an RNAV unit).

I'm trying to figure out if it is a 1k, 5k, 10k or 50k cost, again, not considering the actual hardware (I would assume that installing a G430 or a GTN 650 is similar in cost of man/hour, maybe I'm wrong).

Sorry if it is just a too generic question without any valid possible reply!

Edited October 9, 2021 by redbaron1982

[toto]

7 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hi all,

I'm in search of my first airplane (I have M20J in mind, eventually M20K 252 or 262). As you all know, there are very few descent alternatives, and some of them have a really "messed up" panel.

My question is, apart from the actual hardware (meaning, radios, audio panels, etc) what's the cost one could expect from redoing a panel, meaning, changing the actual face and relocating some of the instruments and replacing some of them?

I don't want to go extra fancy, like G1000, but for instance, getting the 6 pack properly aligned (some have not the standard layout), and some radios replaced/relocated, some old equipment removed (like an RNAV unit).

I'm trying to figure out if it is a 1k, 5k, 10k or 50k cost, again, not considering the actual hardware (I would assume that installing a G430 or a GTN 650 is similar in cost of man/hour, maybe I'm wrong).

Sorry if it is just a too generic question without any valid possible reply!

It’s going to be a really hard question to answer without knowing the state of the panel and installed equipment. 

Any major panel work on a 40-year-old aircraft is going to involve a lot of rewiring. There’s likely to be a rat’s nest of old, crusty wires and connectors, and your install shop is going to want to redo all of that.

Honestly, if you’re going to go to the trouble of cutting a new panel and moving things around, it’s definitely worth considering a move to solid state digital instruments and removing the vacuum system. 

On the other hand, if you’re primarily concerned about the appearance of the instrument faces, there are companies that will refurb with new silkscreens and glass for a very reasonable fee without a lot of cutting and rewiring. You could probably refurb all of your original instrument faces for 2-4AMU. 

[N201MKTurbo]

I redid mine in 2017 with a new Avidyne, transponder and G5 HSI. I did all the work and it cost about 27K, you could figure on 5-7K for the install labor.

Edited October 9, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[ArtVandelay]

You could spend $60K, easily, if you went full glass panel and engine monitor, GFC500, ADSB, 255, and GTN 750.

[Ragsf15e]

So we have somewhere between $5k and $60k.  That would’ve been my guess too! 

[MikeOH]

@redbaron1982

Reading between the lines...sounds like you want to get a plane soon (M20J), but aren't ready for what you really want (252/262).  I understand that completely but, know going in that you are going to pay for that present gratification in the buy/sell/buy process.  I would think you'd like to minimize that cost.  If that is the case, I'd recommend leaving the panel alone as long as it is functional.  You will get used to the 'non standard' panel in a short while; pass the upgrade costs on to the next guy and save your money for the Mooney you ultimately want.  You will NOT get your 'upgrade' money back.

[N9405V]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ArtVandelay]

Just buy your forever plane now, upgrade it and be happy.

[Tx_Aggie]

9 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hi all,

I'm in search of my first airplane (I have M20J in mind, eventually M20K 252 or 262). As you all know, there are very few descent alternatives, and some of them have a really "messed up" panel.

My question is, apart from the actual hardware (meaning, radios, audio panels, etc) what's the cost one could expect from redoing a panel, meaning, changing the actual face and relocating some of the instruments and replacing some of them?

I don't want to go extra fancy, like G1000, but for instance, getting the 6 pack properly aligned (some have not the standard layout), and some radios replaced/relocated, some old equipment removed (like an RNAV unit).

I'm trying to figure out if it is a 1k, 5k, 10k or 50k cost, again, not considering the actual hardware (I would assume that installing a G430 or a GTN 650 is similar in cost of man/hour, maybe I'm wrong).

Sorry if it is just a too generic question without any valid possible reply!

I think most of the J’s and newer came with the standard 6-pack, so it would be surprising to hear that there exists an example that was altered. 
 

regardless, you can spend as little or as much as you want to. I picked a J over a K to see if I could manage the expenses of ownership, taking into account that M20Js are the “best bang for the buck” in terms of speed and efficiency. When I bought mine, I bought the gtx345 to pair to my older garmin 480 and not too much later I added a garmin 355 to replace the 480. 
 

if you need both adsb and a modern Ifr gps, it’s hard to beat the garmin 375 transponder/gps, from a value/modern technology standpoint. The panel layout doesn’t have to be perfect at the start, you’ll want to hold back some dry powder for the random fixes that will occur in the first year of ownership too. 
 

good luck! For what it’s worth i routinely file and see 155 ktas at about 10.5-11 gph up to about 10,000’. 

[larryb]

I think the OP is asking about just the metal part of the panel. In my upgrade that was a line item of around $1500. Almost insignificant part of the total. But that part does involve a fair bit of work. I know that my shop had two trial plexiglass pieces produced before approving the final design cut in aluminum.

[ArtVandelay]

I think the OP is asking about just the metal part of the panel. In my upgrade that was a line item of around $1500. Almost insignificant part of the total. But that part does involve a fair bit of work. I know that my shop had two trial plexiglass pieces produced before approving the final design cut in aluminum.

There’s probably a lot of variables in cutting a panel, like flush mounting vs normal, etc.

[Z W]

You will be paying by the hour, essentially, for the avionics work.  They may give you a flat quote but they're basing it on their shop rates.

The answer to your question depends on what you're doing.  If you're just re-arranging existing old instruments into a standard 6-pack, maybe $2-5k for labor, depending on how many wires they have to extend / cut / remove etc.  This makes little sense to do with the cost of modern alternative gauges.  If you're going to send the plane in for major panel surgery, you may as well add some solid-state digital AHRS if your plane doesn't have it.

If you want to add a couple of GI-275's to replace a legacy King attitude indicator and HSI, which makes a lot more sense while you're at it, you'll still probably pay $2-5k for labor.  To add a modern GFC500 autopilot while you're doing it, add another $5-7k for labor to that.  To add a GTX-345 or equivalent full-featured ADSB transponder, another $2k or so for labor.

With the cost of the new Garmin and Avidyne units coming down lately, it quickly gets hard to justify repairing old King AI's, HSI's, and autopilots, which are getting more expensive and difficult to repair as they break.

[carusoam]

RB,

Between the lack of knowing what you want to lack of knowing what you are starting with…

You got a lot of variety… with a factor of 10 between the low and the high…

Study a bunch of what your goals are…

 

If you are in the CB club….

Or are Post children building your forever-plane…

No two MSers are in the same boat…. Figuratively speaking… 

 

Most people with a tight budget prefer adding one device at a time…

Anyone that has done this through the years… wishes they could have done the one stop shop thing…

 

Installing is expensive…

Taking things apart and putting it all back together many times becomes ridiculously expensive…

Spreading it out over the years hides the pain better…

 

There are simple swap the panel out with new… and keep everything that is  already wired up…. That is $50 of aluminum sheet… turned into AMUs before the painting and silkscreening is finished…

See if you can find the panel parts on the Lasar website… to get a feeling for how easy this addiction starts out…

Got a good mechanic you can work with?

PP thoughts only, not a finance expert…

Best regards,

-a-