Turn Coordinator replacement

[flyboy0681]

Just wondering how much labor is involved, in terms of hours, to replace the TC on a J model. It's located in the original position on the lower left hand corner of the panel.

[231MJ]

I would guess an hour.  Should be plug-n-play.  If you need one I have the one removed from a 1979 K.  Working when removed.

[jlunseth]

If you have the budget, the best thing to do is to install a Garmin 275 in place of the TC. You need the OAT probe kit to make it a legal TC replacement. That gives you an excellent backup AI and a legal TC that will be more help to you in IMC than the old one. I never found the original TC in my plane to be a very accurate predictor of turn rate if doing IMC exercises, I would be several degrees off course pretty quickly. The Garmin TC indicators change bank angle for a two-minute turn depending on airspeed and, apparently, OAT, which works pretty good.

[flyboy0681]

The reason I asked was to gauge an estimate I received for replacing it. The labor came out to $995 alone, and even at $150 an hour I think that is out of line. 

[jlunseth]

Not sure, but I assume it is to translate CAS/IAS into TAS to determine rate of bank for a given TAS, to make the turn in 2 minutes. I can tell you that without the OAT probe, you can have a 275, but it is not a legal replacement for the TC where the TC is a required instrument. Like a "not certified as primary" engine monitor can't replace your MP or other required engine instruments, it can just supplement. Not sure if the TC indicators would even come on in a 275 that does not have the probe, I don't know, I have the probe.

[flyboy0681]

Please people, stick to the original post.
 

This was one question where topic creep is not appreciated. 

[DCarlton]

I just had a shop charge me 2 hours to replace a VSI and 10 hours to replace a DG.  The DG was extremely difficult to access and required a lot of panel disassembly.  The VSI was down low and easy to access.  I was there throughout the process.  In both cases, I thought the charges were reasonable.  You're probably somewhere in the middle.  

Just my personal experience.  Not an expert.  There is nothing easy about avionics work.  

Edited July 24, 2021 by DCarlton

[LANCECASPER]

10 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

Please people, stick to the original post.
 

This was one question where topic creep is not appreciated. 

Give me a break. You got your answer in the first response. If people offering you alternatives and quite possibly better alternatives bothers you that much, don’t ask a question on a forum. Other people’s opinions are appreciated by most on here.

[flyboy0681]

24 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Give me a break. You got your answer in the first response. If people offering you alternatives and quite possibly better alternatives bothers you that much, don’t ask a question on a forum. Other people’s opinions are appreciated by most on here.

My humble apologies. The cost of replacing a TC is about $1k versus $7-8k for a GI 275. When the thread  evolved into true airspeed versus calibrated, I knew things had gone off course.

[OR75]

I am staying on topic : 1 amu sounds reasonable 

[carusoam]

Step one…. See where the TC is in the panel…

Step two… Can you see the four screws holding it in place…

 

A: If it is at the bottom of the panel, and you remove the screws… does it fall out on its own?

B: If it is in the middle of the panel and other things are in the way… is it land locked requiring other things to be R&R’d?

Step three… stand by for why you want more than a TC as a back-up AI when you fly in IMC… 

Step four… expect that the avionics shop didn’t look, and priced it as another instrument or two will need to be disturbed…

Step five… prove to yourself the TC is ready flop out on the floor if the screws got removed…

Step six… Select a better back-up device than the TC with all the money MS has just saved you….  

Step seven… Present this to your partners…. How to get a better instrument than a TC mounted in that same hole… look how easy it is…

 

Post pics… front of the panel and back of the instrument…

It’s most likely really easy to access… an hour to do the work and an hour for paperwork?

Keep in mind… the thread is about install cost, right?  It would be good to say that in the thread title…   

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic… or website guy…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[gacoon]

Cost for TC can vary, regular old TC not so bad. Now if you have an STEC autopilot cost will go way up as it provides attitude info to the STEC unit. 

[flyboy0681]

9 hours ago, OR75 said:

I am staying on topic : 1 amu sounds reasonable 

1 amu for the unit and install or for labor only?

[flyboy0681]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Step one…. See where the TC is in the panel…

Step two… Can you see the four screws holding it in place…

 

A: If it is at the bottom of the panel, and you remove the screws… does it fall out on its own?

B: If it is in the middle of the panel and other things are in the way… is it land locked requiring other things to be R&R’d?

Step three… stand by for why you want more than a TC as a back-up AI when you fly in IMC… 

Step four… expect that the avionics shop didn’t look, and priced it as another instrument or two will need to be disturbed…

Step five… prove to yourself the TC is ready flop out on the floor if the screws got removed…

Step six… Select a better back-up device than the TC with all the money MS has just saved you….  

Step seven… Present this to your partners…. How to get a better instrument than a TC mounted in that same hole… look how easy it is…

 

Post pics… front of the panel and back of the instrument…

It’s most likely really easy to access… an hour to do the work and an hour for paperwork?

Keep in mind… the thread is about install cost, right?  It would be good to say that in the thread title…   

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic… or website guy…

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

FWIW,

The TC is the easiest instrument to change. Take out the four screws, remove the connector from the back and slide it out. Should take about 15 minutes to swap one out.

That is if the instrument nuts are ok.

[flyboy0681]

3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

FWIW,

The TC is the easiest instrument to change. Take out the four screws, remove the connector from the back and slide it out. Should take about 15 minutes to swap one out.

That is if the instrument nuts are ok.

Exactly the information I was looking for, thanks.

[DCarlton]

If someone finds an avionics shop that will do any R&R task in 15 mins or even in 1 hour, please let me know where they are located!  I think I was charged an hour once for a software update and thought that was outstanding.  

[RobertGary1]

8 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

FWIW,

The TC is the easiest instrument to change. Take out the four screws, remove the connector from the back and slide it out. Should take about 15 minutes to swap one out.

That is if the instrument nuts are ok.

That’s if you find one of the same model that does not require rewriting. Autopilots complicate it. But hanger elves could do it if you’re using a junk yard tc of the same model. 

[carusoam]

Rich’s hangar elf is different from other hangar elfs…. It has an A&P IA….  Qualifications…

-a-

[OR75]

And a TC has a S/N 

[N201MKTurbo]

14 hours ago, DCarlton said:

If someone finds an avionics shop that will do any R&R task in 15 mins or even in 1 hour, please let me know where they are located!  I think I was charged an hour once for a software update and thought that was outstanding.  

I wasn't talking about what any individual shop's pricing policy is. I was just talking about how long the actual job takes. it will likely take far longer than that to do the paperwork.

[flyboy0681]

Just now, N201MKTurbo said:

I wasn't talking about what any individual shop's pricing policy is. I was just talking about how long the actual job takes. it will likely take far longer than that to do the paperwork.

Would it take 8 to 10 hours?

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Would it take 8 to 10 hours?

That does seem a bit excessive.

Let's look at a worst case scenario,

Incoming documentation  0.5 hours

Accounting set up account 0.5 hours

Ramp rat move airplane into shop 0.5 hours

Technician diagnoses TC 0.5 hours

Replacement order written 0.5 hours

Purchasing orders TC 0.5 hours.

Receiving receives TC 0.5 hours

Technician replaces TC 0.25 hours.

Technician updates logbooks 0.5 hours.

Billing prepares invoice 0.5 hours

Ramp rat moves airplane out of hangar 0.5 hours.

 

That is still only 5.25 hours.

[N201MKTurbo]

That's why I got my A&P and IA so I don't have to pay all that overhead.

[flyboy0681]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That does seem a bit excessive.

Let's look at a worst case scenario,

Incoming documentation  0.5 hours

Accounting set up account 0.5 hours

Ramp rat move airplane into shop 0.5 hours

Technician diagnoses TC 0.5 hours

Replacement order written 0.5 hours

Purchasing orders TC 0.5 hours.

Receiving receives TC 0.5 hours

Technician replaces TC 0.25 hours.

Technician updates logbooks 0.5 hours.

Billing prepares invoice 0.5 hours

Ramp rat moves airplane out of hangar 0.5 hours.

 

That is still only 5.25 hours.

Gotcha! The job was done in my hangar. Remove 1 hour.